How I came to dislike living in a capitalist society

[atreestump]

The point I disagree with is blaming a type of economic society or a type of governmental society. That's not truly where the problem lies.


It's not just an economic system - a culture comes with it too.



The problem lies within the society itself... worldwide... regardless of which country you live in... regardless of which language you speak or what race you identify yourself with. 

It doesn't matter!


Yes and those problems stem from economic issues for the most part, inequality and lack of solidarity, competitive ideologies and domination accompanied by exploitation. The point is, there is a problem and we can talk about it, we can understand it and figure out means to change it.


I don't blame my parents for a lot of the stuff that has happened to me over the years. 
They raised me the best way they knew how. 
No one gave my parents a book on how to properly raise a child in the society they lived in.



I never blamed my parents - they incorporated the culture around them, just like you and I did. The point is that we are taught how markets works, how to buy and sell commodities, we are taught what property is and to respect authority - modern day consumers have to be trained. Capitalism has been a devastating success and it has changed drastically since my parents were younger in post-war society. Growth and progress were possible due to cheap petroleum and a Keynesian model, but that is on the way out and all we have left is a society full of debt.

Work ethics are not only taught by parents, they are enforced by all of those who occupy the society, which is why we can't just look at capitalism (or scoailism, communism or whatever) as only an economic system - it is a culture and form of life.



It's you as a person that dictates how your life will be and how you fit into an imperfect society.


All it takes, is one injury and sickness and I could be homeless. All it takes is for the social projects that provide cheap housing to decide they want to sell off those properties for profit and I will never be able to relax, retire or even live a life that is worth living - your choices are only as good as the choices that are available and possible. I consider myself part of the precariat class, it would take a matter of weeks for me to become destitute, me and many others.

The problem I have with capitalism is that it will put property law and profits before human beings. No one here is dreaming of perfection - or utopias (which means 'nowhere') - socialism, capitalism and communism all have their problems.


Final statement: I don't blame society or the people who have been close to me in my life for how my life has turned out so far.


Again, it's not to be thought of as blame, it's an acknowledgment of how the system works and how it is a system of exploitation. My parents are in the same situation - we are all in the same boat. While some of us may live in relative comfort, there are others who are suffering, take those in producing countries for instance, while their 'economies' are doing well, the ones who are working here work in terrible conditions on low wages (around $1.76 per hour) so their governments can go to war with other countries, exploiting resources from countries with poor property law - war is a means of opening markets. Let's not forget the trillions of dollars that was given to the banks for the bailout that crippled the world, the rich got richer and the poor got poorer.



I only have myself to criticize or applaud my decisions and yet at the same time, I do accept whatever consequences of those decisions have on my life.



I couldn't agree more. Just remember that no man is an island however. This is actually the point of my post, no blame or acting like a victim, take control of your life and do the best you can do.

My point is if the state is going to leave everyone high and dry for profits, then it may as well not exist. The problem is enclosure, it's all very well looking at the world as if it is a human being's divine right to divide it up as property for a price, but eventually, there's no where else to go - what then? Not only that, but capitalism offers no workable solution for climate change, which is something your children are going to have to face. The board game of Monopoly is a form of game theory in economics which addresses this problem of accumulation and enclosure - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_George

Also see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progress_and_Poverty
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism

He makes some really good points that I think could work, a progressive taxation.

[kFoyauextlH]

It is imperative for the intellectuals and artists to avoid labor as much as possible which is not towards their own growth. To hell with society if it is living for nothing and unable to generate anything but utilities and services for the sake of utilities and services to be provided in some circular system which leads to no intellectual growth or freedom of thought and increased insight or enjoyment for individuals. A system which is forcing Whisper to do anything other than flourish and express is a death machine.
[hr]
If it weren't for Serpius, we might all be rather like-minded. I think Serpius contributes the most to this website by bringing in the views of the common man. We should not work to change his views too quickly, nor are we likely to be able to, but should use them as a great counter-point to our own and as a means to examine a representative mind of the people.

If it is the people we are ever wishing to communicate with (and generally I wish never to know the people or them to know me) then a representation of their thinking processes is a definite boon to this website and should be encouraged and cultivated, so long as it is not allowed to fall into the usual thuggish suppression and insulting that "the people" tend towards and is kept mainly to this one user and their wonderful thoughts and demonstrations. When studying a bacteria for example, its best to keep the sample contained and limited and controlled.

This website should be a place where individuals are encouraged to very freely express themselves without much work going into suppression or conversion efforts until at least a good degree of the mentalities have been demonstrated and become recorded on the website.

The fault of Socialism and Communism, Guns, and just about every issue of debate are the people and almost always the people.

The best way to deal with the people is to enslave them just as one would a beast, so long as this enslavement does not cause the deterioration or loss of great minds. So then education is important, in order to try to cultivate the great minds and separate them from those best enslaved for their unwillingness to express themselves. That is the more lenient position as compared to killing them off as a major obstruction. There is in my view practically no chance of the same patterns not developing repeatedly. Life remains a struggle to survive and think and express and avoid the vile gaze of the people and the tyrrany of work and aimless selfless labor for the state or society.

The ideal state is a complete solitary unit, a singular immortal and utterly efficient person who has less needs and can focus on creation, a God in the thoughts of common people.

To become a God is the goal of all the wisest as much as possible. To become a God is a drive in all animals. To be well fed, safe, dominant, unchallenged and unthreatened, far from competition, with every whim and desire met preferably with ease and without pain or struggle or difficulty.

The life of man and animal and plant-kind is the furthest and most unlike God, the opposite, and objecting to the system is objecting to God and Nature and the Kings and the typical Order.

Those who do not reject the system and are not at war with it at least in their hearts are its helpers and our enemies so long as they support any efforts against our work and working to become those things I mentioned all animals wanting.
[hr]
My posts tend to skip the nitty gritty and go for grander underlying themes so they may seem lacking in particular nuanced discussions like tax plans and little bandages for a gaping wound or a severed head and a mindless abnormally living body that continues its writhing mindlessly. The best help isn't in policy but in hacks and shortcuts and tricks to cheat the monster and live off the beast like a leech just trying to breathe another day to think just a little longer.

[Serpius]

The best way to deal with the people is to enslave them just as one would a beast, so long as this enslavement does not cause the deterioration or loss of great minds. So then education is important, in order to try to cultivate the great minds and separate them from those best enslaved for their unwillingness to express themselves. That is the more lenient position as compared to killing them off as a major obstruction. There is in my view practically no chance of the same patterns not developing repeatedly. Life remains a struggle to survive and think and express and avoid the vile gaze of the people and the tyrrany of work and aimless selfless labor for the state or society.

The ideal state is a complete solitary unit, a singular immortal and utterly efficient person who has less needs and can focus on creation, a God in the thoughts of common people.


"The best way to deal with the people is to enslave them just as one would a beast"

Seriously??

Wasn't that already a tried method done in the 18th and 19th centuries in the Old and New Worlds?
Care to share with us how well that turned out for the slaves?
Would you like to share with us the facts on how many slaves were killed by their masters through disease or torture?

North Korea dictatorial government for all intents and purposes is doing the same thing to their own people and how is that working out for those people?

So your logic is tragically flawed and is in serious need of re-thinking of this whole approach.

[atreestump]

I think what @"kFoyauextlH" is saying is first and foremost - the artist and intellectual devalues and revalues what creates value in an economy, whereas the norm and those who do not question the norms, have expectations that fit with a model of labor as the only thing that creates value. I would point you all towards Hannah Arendt, who turns the economy upside down to place labor as the least valuable thing in society and she places art towards the top. She does this by turning back to Aristotle and explaining how 'economy' comes from the Greek word 'oikos', which was a word for the household management for a king and later Political Economies (Ricardo, Smith, Marx etc) would extend the 'household' to a country. Arendt is a 'pre-modernist'.

Now his more controversial comment:

The fault of Socialism and Communism, Guns, and just about every issue of debate are the people and almost always the people.

The best way to deal with the people is to enslave them just as one would a beast, so long as this enslavement does not cause the deterioration or loss of great minds.


This is a solution that often comes up when coming from the Nietzschean perspective and Platonist perspective for that matter, that the 'herd' or the occupants of the cave, have no idea what a Good life consists of and think in concrete terms that lead to self-policing.

I suppose the question here that arises, as it always does in this sort of discussion, is how is it possible implement a society that relegates work in favor of personal pursuits of growth in the hope that giving people more freedom will lead to freedom for all? In some respects, most people don't see 'being controlled' as control at all; they accept their fate and position in society. But I would argue that deep down, they feel bitter and resentful and over time, they will begin to erupt when they feel less able to express themselves.

Should we just run away and live how we want to? Can solitary living away from the herd lead to a return, or must it lead to a return to the herd?

[kFoyauextlH]

I am in Canada. What are some ways I can avoid working and make enough money to survive with a partner as you do and focus on creative things?

[atreestump]

I am in Canada. What are some ways I can avoid working and make enough money to survive with a partner as you do and focus on creative things?


The main thing is how prepared you are to live on the minimum - we are going to move onto a boat later on in the year, so that will bring costs down and reduce the need to work many long hours.

If you can in some way keep moving around and live in simpler ways, that is the key to being a creative person in a capitalist society. Vancouver Island has lots of artists, who sleep outside in trees or camp in the woods, but that's only possible for now until they begin to become enclosed.

[Rubsy]

@"Serpius"
@"kFoyauextlH" 
I would like to interject on your lively discussion of what to do with the people so to speak. I often have problems with people and find it very hard to be told what I should and shouldn't do. The imperative is my problem. I suppose that I have developed a value system where I think that the best possible society would have  the most freedom. There I come to an internal conflict where I judge people for being too judgmental.  I am often disappointed by people's intolerance, whereas I have a deep belief that people need space to develop their own values. As slavery is intolerable for me I would not wish it on anyone else.
However in this day and age slavery still exists in it's raw state, there is a slave market in Syria where refugees from the Sudan are traded and ransomed and killed if they can not extract enough value from them.  People are judged as to what value can be extracted from them. There is slavery built into the prison system. For example Trump's refugee sub contracted prisons are only paying their prisoners a dollar a day for their labour and delaying their deportation by losing their papers in order to get more slave labour. This is all very sad and I can only say I never want to be on the wrong end of justice. That that is a fear most of us carry, but it makes hypocrites of us all, as we have to play the game to a point. If you want to step outside the box, the imperative is not to get caught. For me there is no such thing as justice in society, but if you can grab enough time and space you may be able to work on creating your own values or sense of justice and you have to take a chance in some way or other, it's unavoidable.

[kFoyauextlH]

The best way to deal with the people is to enslave them just as one would a beast, so long as this enslavement does not cause the deterioration or loss of great minds. So then education is important, in order to try to cultivate the great minds and separate them from those best enslaved for their unwillingness to express themselves. That is the more lenient position as compared to killing them off as a major obstruction. There is in my view practically no chance of the same patterns not developing repeatedly. Life remains a struggle to survive and think and express and avoid the vile gaze of the people and the tyrrany of work and aimless selfless labor for the state or society.

The ideal state is a complete solitary unit, a singular immortal and utterly efficient person who has less needs and can focus on creation, a God in the thoughts of common people.


"The best way to deal with the people is to enslave them just as one would a beast"

Seriously??

Wasn't that already a tried method done in the 18th and 19th centuries in the Old and New Worlds?
Care to share with us how well that turned out for the slaves?
Would you like to share with us the facts on how many slaves were killed by their masters through disease or torture?

North Korea dictatorial government for all intents and purposes is doing the same thing to their own people and how is that working out for those people?

So your logic is tragically flawed and is in serious need of re-thinking of this whole approach.


Hi! It isn't tragically flawed because it is a process of thinking and you reacted correctly albeit a little unpleasantly.

The purpose for these radical statements is to bring to mind certain truth which lead us back to solutions. Things that may come to mind are "whose to decide what is good for me?" this is why I call these things thought programs.

I​​​​​ am a radical, and my intentions are generally to manipulate people into becoming radicals like me.

One such method of manipulation is to make true statements that lead to certain reactions or results.

For example, the word enslavement brought slaves to your mind and concerns of being enslaved. If you take it further, you will find my points repeated internally as a reaction, for example "animals want to dominate and not be dominated" and "I don't want to be a slave, I want to be free or on top" and "I will have to fight to survive and fight off other dominating attempts by animals" which is an attempt to craft you into exactly what I would like you to be, a person radically opposed to being dominated or a person who allows themselves to be dominated. If you choose the first then we can move in that direction and moulding you into a further weapon of the cause. If you choose the latter we will further make you into a good and efficient slave.

It is impossible to escape well laid and flexible plans.

So if you have chosen the path of the fighter, why does one who is supposedly averse from slavery sit by and watch people slave away and serve them? At the local stores for example. Or is it that you don't really object to the suffering plight of the people but mainly don't want to be threatened by the prospect of being deemed unworthy and thus enslaved? Is that not what most have been deemed and what has already happened?

Serpius, my posts are not what they might seem, they require deep thonking and serious introspection. Like I have said before, I can use far fewer words or no words at all if my intention was merely to convince you that I am an idiot with no sense.
[hr]
Don't think, Thonk.

[atreestump]

I often have problems with people and find it very hard to be told what I should and shouldn't do. The imperative is my problem.


This meets with @"kFoyauextlH" here:
 

The purpose for these radical statements is to bring to mind certain truth which lead us back to solutions. Things that may come to mind are "whose to decide what is good for me?" this is why I call these things thought programs.

 

If you want to step outside the box, the imperative is not to get caught.


^This reminds of something Spinoza says, goes along the lines of 'Punishment does not deliver feelings of guilt and regret, but rather embittered feelings of what terrible misfortunes have befallen me that I was caught!'.

[kFoyauextlH]

Excellent and yeah I really liked the post by Rubsy.