The themes of each of my active threads currently are being thought of by me throughout the day, pretty much non-stop, but I allow a lot to form before I end up writing something lengthier usually. Like one idea I had for this thread,among many other ideas for things I could write here, had to do with the things seemingly distorted in later times to vilify and demonize aspects of life and nature when certain cults had developed around symbols representing those themes and assigned a name. Another thing that I've been thinking about is how made up things can sometimes be more frank and honest than the convoluted symbols and traditions that may get lost in translation even by later generations of an ongoing culture making use of those symbols. Also hateful polemics and attacks can say a lot, even through specific errors and lies, both about those attacking and those attacked.
For example, there were some very specific cults and entities fixated upon by the people whose ideas would become more influential later, while others have gone largely unmentioned or were integrated in other ways without such hostility. Those things that were attacked seem to have survived in new versions inspired by such stories and demonization efforts, and what ended up being associated with them by their enemies or opposition and what gets linked to them today is also worthy of note and interesting to me, as it conversely makes the people opposing those things have to stand for the opposite in some ways.
The God(s): Deconstructing Religious & Magical Thinking
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kFoyauextlH
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kFoyauextlH
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Re: The God(s): Deconstructing Religious & Magical Thinking
https://www.occult.live/index.php/Michael_Servetus
"
Michael Servetus (29 September 1509 or 1511 – 27 October 1553) was a Spanish theologian, physician, cartographer, and Renaissance humanist. He was the first European to correctly describe the function of pulmonary circulation, as discussed in Christianismi Restitutio (1553).
Engraving of Michael Servetus
He was a polymath versed in many sciences: mathematics, astronomy and meteorology, geography, human anatomy, medicine and pharmacology, as well as jurisprudence, translation, poetry, and the scholarly study of the Bible in its original languages. Servetus is renowned in the history of several of these fields, particularly medicine. He participated in the Protestant Reformation, and later rejected the Trinity doctrine and mainstream Catholic Christology. After being condemned by Catholic authorities in France, he fled to Calvinist Geneva where he was denounced by Calvin and burned at the stake for heresy by order of the city's governing council.
Early life
Michael Servetus was born in Tudela, Kingdom of Navarre. He attended the University of Toulouse in 1527, where he studied law. After an interval, Servetus returned to Paris to study medicine in 1536. After his studies in medicine, Servetus started a medical practice.
Dispute with John Calvin
In 1553 Michael Servetus published another religious work with further anti-trinitarian views entitled Christianismi Restitutio (The Restoration of Christianity), a work that sharply rejected the idea of predestination as the idea that God condemned souls to Hell regardless of worth or merit. God, insisted Servetus, condemns no one who does not condemn himself through thought, word, or deed. This work also includes the first published description of the pulmonary circulation in Europe.
To John Calvin, who had written his summary of Institutes of the Christian Religion, Servetus' latest book was an attack on historical Nicene Christian doctrine and a misinterpretation of the biblical canon. Calvin sent a copy of his own book as his reply. Servetus promptly returned it, thoroughly annotated with critical observations. Calvin wrote to Servetus, "I neither hate you nor despise you; nor do I wish to persecute you; but I would be as hard as iron when I behold you insulting sound doctrine with so great audacity."
In time, their correspondence grew more heated until Calvin ended it. Servetus sent Calvin several more letters, to which Calvin took offense.
Imprisonment
On 16 February 1553, Michael Servetus while in Vienne, France, was denounced as a heretic by Guillaume de Trie (a rich merchant who had taken refuge in Geneva and who was a good friend of Calvin) in a letter sent to a cousin, Antoine Arneys, who was living in Lyon.
On behalf of the French inquisitor Matthieu Ory, Michael Servetus and Balthasard Arnollet, the printer of Christianismi Restitutio, were questioned, but they denied all charges and were released for lack of evidence. On 26 March 1553, the letters sent by Michael to Calvin and some manuscript pages of Christianismi Restitutio were forwarded to Lyon by De Trie. On 4 April 1553, Servetus was arrested by Roman Catholic authorities and imprisoned in Vienne. He escaped from prison three days later. On 17 June, he was convicted of heresy, "thanks to the 17 letters sent by John Calvin, preacher in Geneva" and sentenced to be burned with his books.
In his absence, he and his books were burned in effigy (blank paper for the books).
Servetus inexplicably stopped in Geneva enroute to Italy, where Calvin had him imprisoned, and all his property was confiscated. French Inquisitors asked that Servetus be extradited to them for execution. Calvin wanted to show he was as firm in defense of Christian orthodoxy as his usual opponents. "He was forced to push the condemnation of Servetus with all the means at his command." At his trial, Servetus was condemned on two counts for spreading and preaching Nontrinitarianism, specifically, Modalistic Monarchianism (or Sabellianism) and anti-paedobaptism (anti-infant baptism).
Death
Calvin believed Servetus deserved death because of what Calvin termed, "execrable blasphemies."
On 27 October, Servetus was burnt alive atop a pyre of his own books at the Plateau of Champel at the edge of Geneva. Historians record his last words as: "Jesus, Son of the Eternal God, have mercy on me."
"
https://www.occult.live/index.php/Iehahel
"
Lelahel helps acquire knowledge and cures illness. Astrologically, this spirit signifies the light of understanding. The person born under this angel's influence will love to converse, and will acquire fame through their talents and actions.
Iehahel rules over the Goetic demon Valefor.
Guardian angel
Iehahel functions as a guardian angel for people born during the following days and times:
Soul Guardian for those born: 1.40 a.m. to 2 a.m.
Moral Guardian for those born: March 25, June 5, August 16, October 27 and January 7.
Physical Guardian for those born: April 14 - 18.
"
https://www.occult.live/index.php/Valefor
"
Valefor (Hebrew: ואלפר) is a Goetic demon. It is the sixth spirit of the 72 demons summoned by King Solomon according to the Lesser Key of Solomon. In the hierarchy of Hell, Valefor is a mighty Duke.
The demon Valefor as pictured in the Occult Tarot.
He is ruled over by the Kabbalistic angel Iehahel.
General description
Valefor appears in the shape of a lion with an ass's head, bellowing. In The Grand Grimoire, Valefor is commanded by Brigadier General Sargatanas.
Abilities
He is a good familiar, but will tempt those who he serves to steal. His seal is to be worn, whether you will have him as a familiar, or not. Astrologically, this spirit signifies ambition.
Valefor governs 10 Legions of Spirits.
He is a servant demon of those born April 14 - 18.
"
https://www.occult.live/index.php/Sargatanas
"
Sargatanas is a brigadier general in the Hierarchy of Hell mentioned in The Grand Grimoire. He is under the command of Astaroth. The demon's character resembles a flying moth or similar insect. A.E. Waite compared the character of Sargatanas with Ophiel, the Olympic spirit of Wednesday and the planet Mercury.
Sargatanas has the power to render one invisible and to transport someone anywhere. He can also open any keyhole or let you see what is going on in other houses. This demon is skilled at teaching necromancy.
Although Sargatanas does not command any legions of demons, he does have command over the demons Foray (Farai), Loray, and Valefor.
Sargatanas appears as the main protagonist of Wayne Barlowe's fantasy novel God's Demon.
"
https://www.occult.live/index.php/Ophiel
https://www.occult.live/images/a/a6/Ophiel_Seal.jpg
It looks like the spelling of my name hidden in there.
"
Ophiel is described as an Olympian spirit in several grimoires collectively called the Grimoire of Armadel.
The 1750 manuscript Regis Salomonis calls this spirit by the name "NOMIFAREMTROS" and provides an alternate seal for it and the other olympic spirits.
Primary texts which describe Ophiel and the spirit's attributes include:
Arbatel of Magick (1575)
Regis Salomonis Septem Sigilla Planetarum (1750)
Magia Naturalis et Innaturalis (1849)
Abilities
In addition to ruling over the planet Mercury, Ophiel gives familiars and teaches all arts. He is also able to convert the metal mercury into the Philosopher's stone.
He controls 100,000 legions of spirits and is described as a spirit of piety, answering questions about God
The seal of Ophiel should be drawn in red ink.
His sigil contains "Mysteries of the Regeneration of Adam and his Children in Time." The three characters of this spirit are drawn in red, yellow, and green colors and include the forms of those in torment.
A.E. Waite believed there was a connection between the demon Sargatanas and Ophiel based on the characters of their seals.
In popular culture
"Ophiel" was the pseudonym of author Edward Peach (1904-1988), who wrote more than a dozen books about occult topics.
"Megalith Ophiel" is the name of a super rare card in the Yu-Gi-Oh! trading card game. It depicts a flying stone-like angel.
"
https://www.occult.live/index.php/Ophie ... al_Alt.jpg
https://www.occult.live/index.php/Mercury
"
Mercury is the ruling planet of Gemini and Virgo and is exalted in Virgo. In classical Roman mythology, Mercury is the messenger of the gods, noted for his speed and swiftness. Echoing this, the scorching, airless world Mercury circles the Sun on the fastest orbit of any planet. Mercury takes only 88 days to orbit the Sun, spending about 7.33 days in each sign of the zodiac. Mercury is so close to the Sun that only a brief period exists after the Sun has set where it can be seen with the naked eye, before following the Sun beyond the horizon.
Astrologically, Mercury represents the principles of communication, mentality, thinking patterns, rationality/reasoning, adaptability and variability. Mercury governs schooling and education, the immediate environment of neighbors, siblings and cousins, transport over short distances, messages and forms of communication such as post, email and telephone, newspapers, journalism and writing, information gathering skills and physical dexterity.
In modern astrology, Mercury is regarded as the ruler of the third house; traditionally, it had the joy in the first house. Mercury is the messenger of the gods in mythology. It is the planet of day-to-day expression and relationships. Mercury's action is to take things apart and put them back together again. It is an opportunistic planet, decidedly unemotional and curious.
"
"
Mercury's surface is similar in appearance to that of the Moon, showing extensive mare-like plains and heavy cratering, indicating that it has been geologically inactive for billions of years.
"
https://www.occult.live/index.php/Ose
https://www.occult.live/index.php/Ieialel
"
One born under Ieialel will be distinguished by bravery and boldness, and they will be passionate for Venus. Ieialel protects against sorrow and heals the sick, especially afflictions of the eyes. Influences iron and those in commerce. Astrologically, this spirit signifies mental force.
Ieialel rules over the Goetic demon Amy.
Guardian angel
Ieialel functions as a guardian angel for people born during the following days and times:
Soul Guardian for those born: 7 p.m. to 7.20 p.m.
Moral Guardian for those born: May 16, July 27, October 7, December 18 and February 28.
Physical Guardian for those born: December 30 - January 3.
"
https://www.occult.live/index.php/Venus
"
The Olympic spirit Hagith rules over Venus, but numerous spirits are also linked to the energy of Venus, including:
Lucifer - alternate name for Phosporos, the Greek god of Venus.
Ieialel - Kabbalistic angel who makes people passionate.
Beelzebub - Leader of Phosporos.
Akhuy - One of the Egyptian decans that rises beside Venus.
Abaddon - Demon ruler of Venus in the Hierarchy of Hell.
Archangel Haniel - Archangel ruling over Venus.
Ishtar - Goddess of love associated with Venus.
Kedemel - Venusian planetary spirit.
"
https://www.occult.live/index.php/Zazel
"
One encyclopedia of demons describes him as "the eternal rebel."
"
"
Zazel has power to cause or alleviate several physical ailments, including:
Problems in the right ear
"
"
Zazel: The Scent of Love was the title of an American p*rn film released in 1997. The movie includes numerous sequences which reference religious themes, culminating in the final scene titled "Diablo d'Inferno" during which actress Anna Romero appears dressed as a "She-Devil" in a fetishistic red latex devil's costume. The film is notable for utilizing visually elaborate set pieces, extravagant costuming, and expensive filming techniques not normally seen in such er*tic films. Zazel: The Scent of Love won seven awards at the 1998 AVN Awards.
Zazel was the stage name of English aerialist and actress Rossa Matilda Richter (7 April 1860 – 8 December 1937) who became known as the first human cannonball at the age of 17.
Zazel is the name of a character in the Yo-kai series of video games and anime cartoons.
"
"
Michael Servetus (29 September 1509 or 1511 – 27 October 1553) was a Spanish theologian, physician, cartographer, and Renaissance humanist. He was the first European to correctly describe the function of pulmonary circulation, as discussed in Christianismi Restitutio (1553).
Engraving of Michael Servetus
He was a polymath versed in many sciences: mathematics, astronomy and meteorology, geography, human anatomy, medicine and pharmacology, as well as jurisprudence, translation, poetry, and the scholarly study of the Bible in its original languages. Servetus is renowned in the history of several of these fields, particularly medicine. He participated in the Protestant Reformation, and later rejected the Trinity doctrine and mainstream Catholic Christology. After being condemned by Catholic authorities in France, he fled to Calvinist Geneva where he was denounced by Calvin and burned at the stake for heresy by order of the city's governing council.
Early life
Michael Servetus was born in Tudela, Kingdom of Navarre. He attended the University of Toulouse in 1527, where he studied law. After an interval, Servetus returned to Paris to study medicine in 1536. After his studies in medicine, Servetus started a medical practice.
Dispute with John Calvin
In 1553 Michael Servetus published another religious work with further anti-trinitarian views entitled Christianismi Restitutio (The Restoration of Christianity), a work that sharply rejected the idea of predestination as the idea that God condemned souls to Hell regardless of worth or merit. God, insisted Servetus, condemns no one who does not condemn himself through thought, word, or deed. This work also includes the first published description of the pulmonary circulation in Europe.
To John Calvin, who had written his summary of Institutes of the Christian Religion, Servetus' latest book was an attack on historical Nicene Christian doctrine and a misinterpretation of the biblical canon. Calvin sent a copy of his own book as his reply. Servetus promptly returned it, thoroughly annotated with critical observations. Calvin wrote to Servetus, "I neither hate you nor despise you; nor do I wish to persecute you; but I would be as hard as iron when I behold you insulting sound doctrine with so great audacity."
In time, their correspondence grew more heated until Calvin ended it. Servetus sent Calvin several more letters, to which Calvin took offense.
Imprisonment
On 16 February 1553, Michael Servetus while in Vienne, France, was denounced as a heretic by Guillaume de Trie (a rich merchant who had taken refuge in Geneva and who was a good friend of Calvin) in a letter sent to a cousin, Antoine Arneys, who was living in Lyon.
On behalf of the French inquisitor Matthieu Ory, Michael Servetus and Balthasard Arnollet, the printer of Christianismi Restitutio, were questioned, but they denied all charges and were released for lack of evidence. On 26 March 1553, the letters sent by Michael to Calvin and some manuscript pages of Christianismi Restitutio were forwarded to Lyon by De Trie. On 4 April 1553, Servetus was arrested by Roman Catholic authorities and imprisoned in Vienne. He escaped from prison three days later. On 17 June, he was convicted of heresy, "thanks to the 17 letters sent by John Calvin, preacher in Geneva" and sentenced to be burned with his books.
In his absence, he and his books were burned in effigy (blank paper for the books).
Servetus inexplicably stopped in Geneva enroute to Italy, where Calvin had him imprisoned, and all his property was confiscated. French Inquisitors asked that Servetus be extradited to them for execution. Calvin wanted to show he was as firm in defense of Christian orthodoxy as his usual opponents. "He was forced to push the condemnation of Servetus with all the means at his command." At his trial, Servetus was condemned on two counts for spreading and preaching Nontrinitarianism, specifically, Modalistic Monarchianism (or Sabellianism) and anti-paedobaptism (anti-infant baptism).
Death
Calvin believed Servetus deserved death because of what Calvin termed, "execrable blasphemies."
On 27 October, Servetus was burnt alive atop a pyre of his own books at the Plateau of Champel at the edge of Geneva. Historians record his last words as: "Jesus, Son of the Eternal God, have mercy on me."
"
https://www.occult.live/index.php/Iehahel
"
Lelahel helps acquire knowledge and cures illness. Astrologically, this spirit signifies the light of understanding. The person born under this angel's influence will love to converse, and will acquire fame through their talents and actions.
Iehahel rules over the Goetic demon Valefor.
Guardian angel
Iehahel functions as a guardian angel for people born during the following days and times:
Soul Guardian for those born: 1.40 a.m. to 2 a.m.
Moral Guardian for those born: March 25, June 5, August 16, October 27 and January 7.
Physical Guardian for those born: April 14 - 18.
"
https://www.occult.live/index.php/Valefor
"
Valefor (Hebrew: ואלפר) is a Goetic demon. It is the sixth spirit of the 72 demons summoned by King Solomon according to the Lesser Key of Solomon. In the hierarchy of Hell, Valefor is a mighty Duke.
The demon Valefor as pictured in the Occult Tarot.
He is ruled over by the Kabbalistic angel Iehahel.
General description
Valefor appears in the shape of a lion with an ass's head, bellowing. In The Grand Grimoire, Valefor is commanded by Brigadier General Sargatanas.
Abilities
He is a good familiar, but will tempt those who he serves to steal. His seal is to be worn, whether you will have him as a familiar, or not. Astrologically, this spirit signifies ambition.
Valefor governs 10 Legions of Spirits.
He is a servant demon of those born April 14 - 18.
"
https://www.occult.live/index.php/Sargatanas
"
Sargatanas is a brigadier general in the Hierarchy of Hell mentioned in The Grand Grimoire. He is under the command of Astaroth. The demon's character resembles a flying moth or similar insect. A.E. Waite compared the character of Sargatanas with Ophiel, the Olympic spirit of Wednesday and the planet Mercury.
Sargatanas has the power to render one invisible and to transport someone anywhere. He can also open any keyhole or let you see what is going on in other houses. This demon is skilled at teaching necromancy.
Although Sargatanas does not command any legions of demons, he does have command over the demons Foray (Farai), Loray, and Valefor.
Sargatanas appears as the main protagonist of Wayne Barlowe's fantasy novel God's Demon.
"
https://www.occult.live/index.php/Ophiel
https://www.occult.live/images/a/a6/Ophiel_Seal.jpg
It looks like the spelling of my name hidden in there.
"
Ophiel is described as an Olympian spirit in several grimoires collectively called the Grimoire of Armadel.
The 1750 manuscript Regis Salomonis calls this spirit by the name "NOMIFAREMTROS" and provides an alternate seal for it and the other olympic spirits.
Primary texts which describe Ophiel and the spirit's attributes include:
Arbatel of Magick (1575)
Regis Salomonis Septem Sigilla Planetarum (1750)
Magia Naturalis et Innaturalis (1849)
Abilities
In addition to ruling over the planet Mercury, Ophiel gives familiars and teaches all arts. He is also able to convert the metal mercury into the Philosopher's stone.
He controls 100,000 legions of spirits and is described as a spirit of piety, answering questions about God
The seal of Ophiel should be drawn in red ink.
His sigil contains "Mysteries of the Regeneration of Adam and his Children in Time." The three characters of this spirit are drawn in red, yellow, and green colors and include the forms of those in torment.
A.E. Waite believed there was a connection between the demon Sargatanas and Ophiel based on the characters of their seals.
In popular culture
"Ophiel" was the pseudonym of author Edward Peach (1904-1988), who wrote more than a dozen books about occult topics.
"Megalith Ophiel" is the name of a super rare card in the Yu-Gi-Oh! trading card game. It depicts a flying stone-like angel.
"
https://www.occult.live/index.php/Ophie ... al_Alt.jpg
https://www.occult.live/index.php/Mercury
"
Mercury is the ruling planet of Gemini and Virgo and is exalted in Virgo. In classical Roman mythology, Mercury is the messenger of the gods, noted for his speed and swiftness. Echoing this, the scorching, airless world Mercury circles the Sun on the fastest orbit of any planet. Mercury takes only 88 days to orbit the Sun, spending about 7.33 days in each sign of the zodiac. Mercury is so close to the Sun that only a brief period exists after the Sun has set where it can be seen with the naked eye, before following the Sun beyond the horizon.
Astrologically, Mercury represents the principles of communication, mentality, thinking patterns, rationality/reasoning, adaptability and variability. Mercury governs schooling and education, the immediate environment of neighbors, siblings and cousins, transport over short distances, messages and forms of communication such as post, email and telephone, newspapers, journalism and writing, information gathering skills and physical dexterity.
In modern astrology, Mercury is regarded as the ruler of the third house; traditionally, it had the joy in the first house. Mercury is the messenger of the gods in mythology. It is the planet of day-to-day expression and relationships. Mercury's action is to take things apart and put them back together again. It is an opportunistic planet, decidedly unemotional and curious.
"
"
Mercury's surface is similar in appearance to that of the Moon, showing extensive mare-like plains and heavy cratering, indicating that it has been geologically inactive for billions of years.
"
https://www.occult.live/index.php/Ose
https://www.occult.live/index.php/Ieialel
"
One born under Ieialel will be distinguished by bravery and boldness, and they will be passionate for Venus. Ieialel protects against sorrow and heals the sick, especially afflictions of the eyes. Influences iron and those in commerce. Astrologically, this spirit signifies mental force.
Ieialel rules over the Goetic demon Amy.
Guardian angel
Ieialel functions as a guardian angel for people born during the following days and times:
Soul Guardian for those born: 7 p.m. to 7.20 p.m.
Moral Guardian for those born: May 16, July 27, October 7, December 18 and February 28.
Physical Guardian for those born: December 30 - January 3.
"
https://www.occult.live/index.php/Venus
"
The Olympic spirit Hagith rules over Venus, but numerous spirits are also linked to the energy of Venus, including:
Lucifer - alternate name for Phosporos, the Greek god of Venus.
Ieialel - Kabbalistic angel who makes people passionate.
Beelzebub - Leader of Phosporos.
Akhuy - One of the Egyptian decans that rises beside Venus.
Abaddon - Demon ruler of Venus in the Hierarchy of Hell.
Archangel Haniel - Archangel ruling over Venus.
Ishtar - Goddess of love associated with Venus.
Kedemel - Venusian planetary spirit.
"
https://www.occult.live/index.php/Zazel
"
One encyclopedia of demons describes him as "the eternal rebel."
"
"
Zazel has power to cause or alleviate several physical ailments, including:
Problems in the right ear
"
"
Zazel: The Scent of Love was the title of an American p*rn film released in 1997. The movie includes numerous sequences which reference religious themes, culminating in the final scene titled "Diablo d'Inferno" during which actress Anna Romero appears dressed as a "She-Devil" in a fetishistic red latex devil's costume. The film is notable for utilizing visually elaborate set pieces, extravagant costuming, and expensive filming techniques not normally seen in such er*tic films. Zazel: The Scent of Love won seven awards at the 1998 AVN Awards.
Zazel was the stage name of English aerialist and actress Rossa Matilda Richter (7 April 1860 – 8 December 1937) who became known as the first human cannonball at the age of 17.
Zazel is the name of a character in the Yo-kai series of video games and anime cartoons.
"
Online
-
kFoyauextlH
- Posts: 661
- Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2025 3:53 pm
Re: The God(s): Deconstructing Religious & Magical Thinking
viewtopic.php?p=3018#p3018
viewtopic.php?p=3019#p3019
"
Gods as words, and collections of themes (referred to or pointed through by the use of words) that are considered by anyone or a cultural group as ontologically connected, a cloud or a swarm of different concepts, images, events, and whatever other sorts of somewhat abstract references may be part of each of these "God,(s)", which are like boxes holding meanings that together can also give more ideas or similar seeming or related things to try to give one an idea if what it may all be about, what that theme box is the "God Of" or their domain of activity and what they are "brought up" or "brought in" or "brought to mind" or "expressed, brought out" for.
In later "antique paganism", but possibly frequently for some and maybe always, possibly even for most, especially those who may have thought more or have had other reasons to make them think this way, including convenience, the many boxes could be said to be under one box, and each of the boxes can have more specific little boxes or manifestations in them that are even more particular and narrow in their scope, even though such still seemed broad in what they dealt with sometimes but reduced the amount of references that may have been included or thought of.
"
viewtopic.php?p=3019#p3019
"
Gods as words, and collections of themes (referred to or pointed through by the use of words) that are considered by anyone or a cultural group as ontologically connected, a cloud or a swarm of different concepts, images, events, and whatever other sorts of somewhat abstract references may be part of each of these "God,(s)", which are like boxes holding meanings that together can also give more ideas or similar seeming or related things to try to give one an idea if what it may all be about, what that theme box is the "God Of" or their domain of activity and what they are "brought up" or "brought in" or "brought to mind" or "expressed, brought out" for.
In later "antique paganism", but possibly frequently for some and maybe always, possibly even for most, especially those who may have thought more or have had other reasons to make them think this way, including convenience, the many boxes could be said to be under one box, and each of the boxes can have more specific little boxes or manifestations in them that are even more particular and narrow in their scope, even though such still seemed broad in what they dealt with sometimes but reduced the amount of references that may have been included or thought of.
"
Online
-
kFoyauextlH
- Posts: 661
- Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2025 3:53 pm
Re: The God(s): Deconstructing Religious & Magical Thinking
So there is a phrase that goes around with people who are crazy but also want to try to control each other, so in order to have both, one of the hobbling Bedlamite creatures came up with the ingenious term:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unverif ... nal_gnosis
Though I may believe people sometimes have experienced what they claim, I also believe in a lot of liars popping up, and I don't necessarily believe what people have experienced is what they claim or theorize that their experience "is" or "means", besides also not necessarily thinking it is worth much or necessarily beneficial to them, especially in how they may be interpreting such or acting on it. To top all that off, the things people end up believing in, pursuing, and fixating on a lot of the time seem like nothing true or significant to me.
There are some highly popular things even which are much more non-existent and unreal to me than others. I pretty much don't care or believe in people's bullsh*t.
Out of all the junk floating around though, some things are far more significant to me at least, while other things strike me as being extra artificial. For example, there is a design in a game series called Megami Tensei which seems to me to he largely symbolically impotent for some name that was popularized by the film the Exorcist, Pazuzu, and on so many levels and layer upon layer does Pazuzu, particularly the way people have interpreted it in modern times, brought it up, and used it, and depicted it, seem extra worthless to me. If someone said they had some spiritual seeming experience, and brought up that name, and then said things about it, there is a chance that I'll either be impressed by certain things they say which somehow strike me as significant or ring true to my "intuition" or however I am subconsciously judging these things and coming up with the feelings about some things claimed seeming better and more worthwhile or true seeming than others or not at all.
This was just to explain my completely anecdotal judgment on various deities and terms that are still around these days, even from fiction, as "myth" has largely been deemed totally fictional by modern people anyway while somehow religion is still not.
So I might also use this thread to list things and mention if and how they seem more worthwhile to me and what doesn't seem to strike me as anything but garbage, and even possibly symbols which people may align to which might appear to put them into different camps, just by the things they may tend to prefer to associate themselves with, even without any seriousness, as it appears that most people are not serious about such things anymore, particularly when they may have been especially impacted by "Westernity", a portmanteau of Western and Modernity that someone else probably came up with before me just now, but I still cane up with it myself lol.
The joke is that this all would qualify as my Unverifiable Personal Gnosis about all these things, but I can probably explain it a little better or add more to it than some others, even though it may just amount to tastes and distaste about things I only have access to after it has been filtered by modernity and Western academia and the English language and probably a lot of people I think that spirituality is not even really compatible with in the first place, even if they are totally dedicated seeming to something.
Certain things just, probably initially inexplicably, read to me as bad, untrue, stupid, sacreligious, blasphemous, disrespectful, and insulting from the things that people translate from the past to what they end up saying themselves about various things.
https://www.reddit.com/r/heathenry/comm ... nverified/
Look at this ridiculousness for example:
"
Otherwise we could have people going around spouting their own interpretation of things as the truth.
"
See? Do you see what I see? The weirdness of that ordinary seeming sentence that might just totally get accepted by a reader?
Religion, even forgetting religion, believing anything, believing so-called "facts" and accepting "clear evidence" all has to do with respect, respecting something over something else which one then is automatically disrespecting by not considering it as having the same value as something else.
"Their own interpretations of things as the truth", lol, that is what everyone is always doing every moment with everything they think is real and true, but we're supposed to suddenly stop in this particular case because it might be noticed that we think other people are crazy idiots and that we think we know better than them? The request is totally ridiculous, but it exists because people want to huddle closely together while keeping the inconsistencies on the down low. Who has ever been the rightful authority on any matter that is universally accepted? These are totalitarians and dogmatists at heart, as is perhaps everyone really, who have accepted so many "truths" that they know how "violent" and "rude" the claim of any "truth" is! Even their omission of this from their dialogue is dishonest really, while implying how much they really look down on "opinions" from so many and are the judge of what they consider valid or not, worthwhile or not, true or not.
Truth can't be a frivolous game, it is something that makes everyone a fanatic, so that fanaticism is an innate part of the human experience, to believe something so undeniably, like we all accept in truth any clear fact of life or physical reality in the slow dream of being awake, that we would become enraged if someone denied something we strictly thought was true, calling whoever denies it a mad person, and especially despising and working every ill towards those who threaten us with oppression and try to coerce us into lip service towards whatever things we don't at all accept or believe in, that we should utter what we think is a damnable lie!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unverif ... nal_gnosis
Though I may believe people sometimes have experienced what they claim, I also believe in a lot of liars popping up, and I don't necessarily believe what people have experienced is what they claim or theorize that their experience "is" or "means", besides also not necessarily thinking it is worth much or necessarily beneficial to them, especially in how they may be interpreting such or acting on it. To top all that off, the things people end up believing in, pursuing, and fixating on a lot of the time seem like nothing true or significant to me.
There are some highly popular things even which are much more non-existent and unreal to me than others. I pretty much don't care or believe in people's bullsh*t.
Out of all the junk floating around though, some things are far more significant to me at least, while other things strike me as being extra artificial. For example, there is a design in a game series called Megami Tensei which seems to me to he largely symbolically impotent for some name that was popularized by the film the Exorcist, Pazuzu, and on so many levels and layer upon layer does Pazuzu, particularly the way people have interpreted it in modern times, brought it up, and used it, and depicted it, seem extra worthless to me. If someone said they had some spiritual seeming experience, and brought up that name, and then said things about it, there is a chance that I'll either be impressed by certain things they say which somehow strike me as significant or ring true to my "intuition" or however I am subconsciously judging these things and coming up with the feelings about some things claimed seeming better and more worthwhile or true seeming than others or not at all.
This was just to explain my completely anecdotal judgment on various deities and terms that are still around these days, even from fiction, as "myth" has largely been deemed totally fictional by modern people anyway while somehow religion is still not.
So I might also use this thread to list things and mention if and how they seem more worthwhile to me and what doesn't seem to strike me as anything but garbage, and even possibly symbols which people may align to which might appear to put them into different camps, just by the things they may tend to prefer to associate themselves with, even without any seriousness, as it appears that most people are not serious about such things anymore, particularly when they may have been especially impacted by "Westernity", a portmanteau of Western and Modernity that someone else probably came up with before me just now, but I still cane up with it myself lol.
The joke is that this all would qualify as my Unverifiable Personal Gnosis about all these things, but I can probably explain it a little better or add more to it than some others, even though it may just amount to tastes and distaste about things I only have access to after it has been filtered by modernity and Western academia and the English language and probably a lot of people I think that spirituality is not even really compatible with in the first place, even if they are totally dedicated seeming to something.
Certain things just, probably initially inexplicably, read to me as bad, untrue, stupid, sacreligious, blasphemous, disrespectful, and insulting from the things that people translate from the past to what they end up saying themselves about various things.
https://www.reddit.com/r/heathenry/comm ... nverified/
Look at this ridiculousness for example:
"
Otherwise we could have people going around spouting their own interpretation of things as the truth.
"
See? Do you see what I see? The weirdness of that ordinary seeming sentence that might just totally get accepted by a reader?
Religion, even forgetting religion, believing anything, believing so-called "facts" and accepting "clear evidence" all has to do with respect, respecting something over something else which one then is automatically disrespecting by not considering it as having the same value as something else.
"Their own interpretations of things as the truth", lol, that is what everyone is always doing every moment with everything they think is real and true, but we're supposed to suddenly stop in this particular case because it might be noticed that we think other people are crazy idiots and that we think we know better than them? The request is totally ridiculous, but it exists because people want to huddle closely together while keeping the inconsistencies on the down low. Who has ever been the rightful authority on any matter that is universally accepted? These are totalitarians and dogmatists at heart, as is perhaps everyone really, who have accepted so many "truths" that they know how "violent" and "rude" the claim of any "truth" is! Even their omission of this from their dialogue is dishonest really, while implying how much they really look down on "opinions" from so many and are the judge of what they consider valid or not, worthwhile or not, true or not.
Truth can't be a frivolous game, it is something that makes everyone a fanatic, so that fanaticism is an innate part of the human experience, to believe something so undeniably, like we all accept in truth any clear fact of life or physical reality in the slow dream of being awake, that we would become enraged if someone denied something we strictly thought was true, calling whoever denies it a mad person, and especially despising and working every ill towards those who threaten us with oppression and try to coerce us into lip service towards whatever things we don't at all accept or believe in, that we should utter what we think is a damnable lie!
Re: The God(s): Deconstructing Religious & Magical Thinking
I like how you’re framing the gods less as immutable beings and more as accumulations of human needs, associations, and longings — recurring archetypes shaped by time and culture. It makes sense that figures like Jesus or Mary can shift so radically depending on the lens: in one tradition a savior, in another stripped of that role, in yet another transformed into a maternal archetype of comfort and immediacy.
What’s interesting is how these archetypes don’t disappear, even when stripped of their original theological grounding — they resurface in new forms, in literature, politics, and even in secular mythologies. It seems less about “believing” in gods and more about recognizing how they embody desires we keep returning to: salvation, nurture, order, rebellion, transcendence.
I’d be curious to see how you’ll expand this — especially if you extend the same approach to other figures, like the trickster, the warrior, or even more abstract ones like death or chaos. Each one might show how human imagination continually remakes its gods to mirror the needs of the age.
What’s interesting is how these archetypes don’t disappear, even when stripped of their original theological grounding — they resurface in new forms, in literature, politics, and even in secular mythologies. It seems less about “believing” in gods and more about recognizing how they embody desires we keep returning to: salvation, nurture, order, rebellion, transcendence.
I’d be curious to see how you’ll expand this — especially if you extend the same approach to other figures, like the trickster, the warrior, or even more abstract ones like death or chaos. Each one might show how human imagination continually remakes its gods to mirror the needs of the age.