Re: Sell your soul
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2025 11:04 am
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I highly reccomend that if you want to be honest about understanding Islam and Muslim people, that you all personally approach and read with your own eyes and personal understanding the Qur'an, which is the central and most influential text of the Muslims, the one that they regard as God's direct speech written down. Don't be like all the other people who just don't read and depend on others to tell you what to think and say. Don't skim. Be honest and read it carefully, and then only can you fairly, justly, nobly, and honorably approach Muslims to teach them about Jesus Christ, otherwise you are coming from a place of ignorance and would sound like you are just attacking them and have not even respectfully studied anything that you are opposed to, it is very rude, you would hate it is someone did that to you, wouldn't you? Be reasonable, and fair, if you are truly people who love God and love what God loves, which is humanity and justice, don't you think that is best?
The Qur'an is in multiple english translations right now on a website called islamawakened, while I also use a similar site with multiple translations for the Bible, called biblehub.
Find a translation you prefer, and either buy it or get a free copy or download that translation and read the whole thing slowly and carefully to see what the Muslims are supposed to be thinking.
When you understand their worldview properly through that book which is influential upon their cultures and history as the starting point and what everything in their cultures stems from abd relies upon and looks back to, and it is not the same as the Bible, you will be able to approach them as what they are, human beings like yourselves, that you should not deal with condescendingly or with hostility if you truly walk with love rather that hatred, bias, prejudice, even double standards, all of which are not suited to representatives of Christ's way, but rather are the ways in which those fooled by Satan would behave, which many Christian denominations and their members have given into, craziness like "lying for Christ" or even lashing out, provoking, picking fights, and striking at people, which all seem very inappropriate abd un-Christian to me, also they achieve nothing good if the goal was to demonstrate to people in need, truly Christian values and love, rather than creating fear and anger which is used to keep people away from Christ and limit the reach of Christianity.
You'll be tempted to take shortcuts, like skimming, listening to what others say rather than reading the source text slowly and carefully in translation for yourself, but drop the attacking stuff and focus on the understanding and the approach from a place of genuine care that is not condescending or assuming that you are so wise and blessed and they are so imbecilic and such duped fools, people can sense that attitude being carried even if you don't say so outright or think that you are showing it, it has to genuinely be removed from you as it is really a demonic entryway through the sin of Pride and ultimately hubris and it can sneak into the beat of us.
Just listening to people badmouth and condemn everyone and everything might feel satisfying, or going out of your way to jump straight into combatting people as enemies, but learning thoroughly from the central source which is universally held by the Muslims to be very important and the most crucial text is your first step in understanding these people in order to talk to them like human beings, with dignity, kindness, and respectfully, to understand also how to approach them and what to impress them with.
Do you think that is wrong and that it is better to just insult people, misunderstand them, keep merely using the word love and not showing it? I would have doubts about everything coming from anyone like that, they would frankly appear to be highly unpalatable and offering nothing of value, only conflict, and that humans should work to ridicule and harm each other, which seems to serve Satan much more than God or Christ.
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@onezerozeroonethree2369
1 month ago
As a j*w this is very interesting. The muslim coopting of our ancestors' beliefs for the benefit of the rich ishmalites is an argument I have never heard before.
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Lol, yeah, they didn't steal anything from anyone, eh?
https://paradigmsonpilgrimage.com/2017/ ... ion-myths/
https://jackikellum.com/mesopotamia-in- ... worshiped/
https://revistas.fcsh.unl.pt/res/articl ... ad/637/546
https://historycollection.com/20-biblic ... -cultures/
https://crivoice.org/langcaan.html
https://people.brandonu.ca/nollk/canaanite-religion/
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“Canaanite religion” is a controversial term because the Bible and some religious scholars distinguish between Canaanite and Israelite religions. However, biblical and archaeological data suggest that Israelite religion was one local variety of the larger, regional Canaanite religion. Canaanite religion is the religion of all peoples living on the eastern Mediterranean seaboard prior to the Common Era. The gods and the myths in this region display some stable characteristics, yet evolved new details and changing divine relationships throughout ancient times. At the center of Canaanite religion was royal concern for religious and political legitimacy and the imposition of a divinely ordained legal structure, as well as peasant emphasis on fertility of the crops, flocks, and humans.
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II. Controversial Questions: Who Was a Canaanite? What Is Canaanite Religion?
Almost every aspect of Canaanite religion is controversial among historians. Probably, it would be more satisfactory to speak of Syro-Palestinian religion rather than Canaanite religion. Be that as it may, the positions taken in this article will be disputed by some researchers. Therefore, two of the most controversial questions must be addressed at some length: Who was a Canaanite? What is Canaanite religion?
WHO WAS A CANAANITE? The ancient label “Canaanite” was not an ethnic designation or a means of personal identity. In the modern West, a person might identify herself as an American in one context, a New Yorker on another occasion, or a Long Islander in another situation. In ancient times, rough equivalents to the latter two of these designations were common, but not necessarily the first (Noll 2001a, pp. 140–6). There was no nation-state in the ancient world, travel for most people was severely limited, and a peasant’s loyalties to a geographically distant king were not necessarily articulated as part of personal or community identification (Lemche 1998b, p. 31). Ethnicity is not a question of biology or political allegiance; rather it is a publicly negotiated corporate identity involving shared values, shared stories, and sometimes a shared metaphysics (Noll 1999, p. 43; Zevit 2001, pp. 89–90). Although most historians understand this issue, they nevertheless manage, at times, to talk past one another when assessing ancient evidence dealing with the identity of the Canaanite peoples (Lemche 1991, 1996, 1998a; Na’aman 1994, 1999; Rainey 1996; Zevit 2001).
In the ancient texts, “Canaan” refers to land, not ethnic groups and not culture, and “Canaanite” designates a person who is from the land of Canaan (cf. Ezek. 16:3). The land of Canaan appears to have been, loosely, the eastern seaboard of the Mediterranean. Any communities in the region known now as southwestern Syria, Lebanon, Israel, western Jordan, and the Palestinian Authority might be designated Canaanite by an ancient scribe (Tammuz 2001). For example, a royal inscription from Egypt describes Israel as one of several peoples defeated by Pharaoh Merneptah when he conquered the land of Canaan (Pritchard 1969a, p. 378). It is no surprise that material objects, temple structures, artistic styles, and other cultural artifacts are relatively uniform over a vast expanse of real estate larger than the region usually designated Canaan and therefore provide no foundation for distinguishing Canaanite from various ethnic identities (Levy 1998 provides an excellent overview; see also Finkelstein 1988; Finkelstein & Na’aman 1994; Bloch-Smith & Nakhai 1999; contra Zevit 2001, pp. 84–85).
In some periods, “Canaan” was a political term. It designated the northeastern portion of the Egyptian empire, the precise borders of which could fluctuate depending on the politics of the day (Rainey 1963; Pitard 1987, pp. 27–80; Redford 1992; Na’aman 1994, 1999; Finkelstein 1996; Tammuz 2001; Goren, Finkelstein & Na’aman 2003). At times, the Egyptians designated all their northeastern holdings Canaan (equivalent to another term, Hurru) while at other times “Canaan” designated the southern portion of this region more specifically. In later times, “Canaan” came increasingly to designate the coastal regions also called Phoenicia. “Canaanite” could become a very loosely defined ethnic term among people who had migrated from Phoenicia to the western Mediterranean.
The etymology of the word “Canaan” is entirely uncertain and not particularly useful to this question (Tammuz 2001, p. 532). The final consonant is a suffix, and the other consonants could derive from a verbal root meaning “to bend” or, more likely, from a root meaning “purple-dyed” cloth. The latter, though disputed by some linguists, suggests the word originated with trade in luxury goods, and might be echoed in the Greek root for “Phoenicia,” meaning “dark red.” The commercial interpretation of the root is interesting because, in a few cases, the Bible uses the same root to specify a “merchant” (e.g., Proverbs 31:24). It is possible that this commercial sense of the word was primary in the minds of those who first used “Canaan” to designate a land that stood between the major population centers of the ancient Near Eastern world. Canaan was a land bridge for merchants and armies on the move (Redford 1992, p. 192; Noll 2001a, pp. 108–11). If this speculation has merit (and it must be stressed that the etymology of “Canaan” is not certain), the use of this linguistic root might have originated among the elite classes who oversaw trade routes and who thought of the region primarily in terms of its economic utility. This perspective and the word associated with it would not have been shared by peasant farmers, some 90 percent of ancient Canaan’s population. (For an alternate hypothesis on the origin of the word “Canaan,” see Tammuz 2001, pp. 532–3.)
Ancient writers seldom designated their own communities Canaanite (Lemche 1991, 1996, 1998a). Among the people living in the land of Canaan, more localized identification no doubt was common. The Bible, for example, speaks of many ethnic groups (Israelites, Jebusites, Philistines, Girgashites, Hivites, etc.) but, with a few exceptions, these are impossible to differentiate in material remains uncovered by archaeologists (Noll 2001a, pp. 136–69). A few of these terms preserve faint memory of migrant groups, such as Philistines whose ancestors arrived from Greece. But evidence of migration is not evidence of ethnos, and the data suggest that any newcomers to Canaan assimilated rather easily into the local culture (Noll 2001a, pp. 149–54).
The name “Israel” makes an excellent example of the difficulties associated with Canaanite identity. This word suggests an unselfconsciously Canaanite worldview, since “Israel” means “El strives” (or perhaps “El is just”; cf. Margalith 1990), designating the bearer of the name as one who affirms the Canaanite god El, as in Genesis 33:20. If the Bible’s claim that the Israelites were non-Canaanite migrants to Palestine preserves any genuine memory, then obviously the name provides no evidence for this, nor does archaeology provide unambiguous ethnic data (Noll 2001a, p. 163; compare Zevit 2001, pp. 113–21, and Brett 2003). Moreover, trace data in the Bible (e.g., Yithra the Israelite in 2 Samuel 17:25 MT; see Noll 1999, p. 41 note 32) and ancient inscriptions (such as the Moabite stone’s reference to Gadites as a non-Israelite people; see Noll 2001a, p. 169 note 17) suggest that only some of the people now known as the ancient Israelites called themselves Israelites. The biblical texts were edited at a late date to create the false impression of a unified pan-Israelite ethnos (Noll 1999, 2001b). Thus, it is best to view Canaan as a geographic term and to define Israel as a limited ethnic or political identity within Canaan (Zevit 2001, p. 116 note 50). An Israelite was a Canaanite who was attacked by Pharaoh Merneptah somewhere in or near the Jezreel valley (Noll 2001a, pp. 124–7), or a Canaanite who was a subject of the kingdom called Israel, or a Canaanite who identified with the cultural memory of that kingdom after it ceased to exist.
In conformity with ancient use of the term, this essay defines a Canaanite not as a member of an ethnic group but as any person who lived during the Bronze (especially later Bronze) and Iron Ages on the eastern seaboard of the Mediterranean. Because the material cultural continuity of the region reaches more widely than the borders of Canaan as reconstructed by modern scholars, and because the term itself could identify a variety of specific regions or no specific place at all, it is best to treat as Canaan the entire Syro-Palestinian corridor, roughly from the modern Anatakya-Aleppo region in the north to Elat-Aqaba in the south. The Bronze Age is defined as ca.3200–1200 BCE, and the Iron Age follows the Bronze Age and includes the Neo-Assyrian, Neo-Babylonian, Persian, and Greek encroachments into Canaanite land, ca.1200–160 BCE.
WHAT IS CANAANITE RELIGION? The concept of Canaanite religion is a difficult one since it is very likely that the ancient peoples we call Canaanite were not aware that they were religious. The modern English word “religion” has no equivalent in ancient Canaanite languages and an etymological discussion of its roots will not profit this discussion. In modern popular culture, a religion can be defined in many ways, causing the publishers of standard dictionaries no end of headaches as they attempt to keep up with ever-changing cultural assumptions. Among the academics, each school of thought produces its own definition of religion (Glazier 1999; Braun & McCutcheon 2000; Hinnells 2005). All such definitions would have been regarded as irrelevant by an ancient people whose lives involved an integration of worldview, ethos, and the struggle for existence in an environment indifferent to their presence.
There are aspects of Canaanite life that we moderns would recognize as religious, however we may define it. For purposes of this article, the list of behaviors enumerated by Ziony Zevit, if modified slightly, offers a workable framework for analysis (Zevit 2001, pp. 11–3). Religion in an ancient Near Eastern context consisted of (1) acknowledgment of a supernatural reality usually defined as a god or gods, (2) reverence for objects, places, and times considered sacred, that is, separated from ordinary objects, places, and times, (3) regularly repeated ritual activities for a variety of purposes, including ritual magic, (4) conformance to stipulations alleged to have been revealed by the supernatural reality, (5) communication with the supernatural through prayer and other activity, (6) experience of feelings described by participants as awe, fear, mystery, etc., (7) integration of items 1–6 into a holistic, though not necessarily systematic, worldview, and (8) association with, and conformity of one’s own life priorities to, a group of like-minded people.
This constellation of attributes is not meant to be a definition cast in stone but is best treated as “a working hypothesis that enhances one’s ability to perceive” (Noll 2001a, p. 57 note 3). The reader is encouraged to refine, modify, or abandon the hypothesis as his or her own research develops. The student of Canaanite religion should keep another thought in mind as well: although it is safe to say that almost all ancient Canaanites were religious in some degree, one should not construct a fable of the “pious ancient” (Morris 1987, pp. 1–4). Just as people in modern society vary in the degree to which they commit themselves to a religious life, so also there were people in the ancient world whose lives might seem, to a modern observer, remarkably secular. This topic is beyond the scope of this article, but has been treated elsewhere (Noll 2001a, pp. 238–43).
A second and more significant problem with the concept of a Canaanite religion brings us back to the question of whom to include under the rubric “Canaanite.” The biblical distinction between Israelite and Canaanite religion is uncompromising, which implies that not all the religions practiced in the land of Canaan were Canaanite religions. Biblical authors like the writer of Deuteronomy 7 exhort Israelites to destroy Canaanite religious objects, temples, altars, and even worshipers. According to that book, the shunning of Canaanite influence reached deeply into Israelite society. An Israelite who is caught worshiping a god other than Yahweh of Israel is to be executed (Deuteronomy 17). Even the genuine miracles or true prophecies of one who worships a god other than the Israelite god are crimes punishable by death (Deuteronomy 13).
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