IndieAgora

What does 'egoless' or 'non-self' mean?

These concepts cause lots of confusion. 'Ego' often has the Freudian meaning associated with it if we think about its usage in a common sense way, but we should know by now that philosophy is never common sense. When we hear people talking about 'dissolving the ego', we can easily believe that we are talking about 'ego' in terms of self-importance and narcissism, megalomania and placing too much of our self-worth on material possessions and so we enter into an attack on desire itself which isn't a bad thing in itself, but it can be taken to an extreme, like anything else, where people speak as if they can be some kind of ultra-passive being with no needs or desires, which then views selfish actions as entirely negative.

This isn't actually what the nuanced view of non-self/egolessness is about in philosophy.

Dividualism

'Folk psychology' is the common sense view that we are a single, coherent entity, that 'inside' our bodies, is a 'me', an actual consistent 'thing' that resides in the mind and is separate from the body and the outside world.

Dividualism opposes our 'individual' view of ourselves and sees the self as being composed of multiple, amalgamated and constantly changing, often conflicting drives, or patterns of desires, values, ideas and instincts. To say we are egoless and selfless is not to say 'I' do not exist, or 'I' am not real, but rather that 'I' is not fixed and 'I' is not one thing, but many things, all at the same time while in constant flux.

We are also dependently originated which means that 'I' is always constructed and pressuposed with the 'Other'. You can't have one without the other. This nondual view of being recognised as a self from the outside, dissolves the illusion of our separateness from the outside reality.

What does 'egoless' or 'non-self' mean?

These concepts cause lots of confusion. 'Ego' often has the Freudian meaning associated with it if we think about its usage in a common sense way, but we should know by now that philosophy is never common sense. When we hear people talking about 'dissolving the ego', we can easily believe that we are talking about 'ego' in terms of self-importance and narcissism, megalomania and placing too much of our self-worth on material possessions and so we enter into an attack on desire itself which isn't a bad thing in itself, but it can be taken to an extreme, like anything else, where people speak as if they can be some kind of ultra-passive being with no needs or desires, which then views selfish actions as entirely negative.

This isn't actually what the nuanced view of non-self/egolessness is about in philosophy.

Dividualism

'Folk psychology' is the common sense view that we are a single, coherent entity, that 'inside' our bodies, is a 'me', an actual consistent 'thing' that resides in the mind and is separate from the body and the outside world.

Dividualism opposes our 'individual' view of ourselves and sees the self as being composed of multiple, amalgamated and constantly changing, often conflicting drives, or patterns of desires, values, ideas and instincts. To say we are egoless and selfless is not to say 'I' do not exist, or 'I' am not real, but rather that 'I' is not fixed and 'I' is not one thing, but many things, all at the same time while in constant flux.

We are also dependently originated which means that 'I' is always constructed and pressuposed with the 'Other'. You can't have one without the other. This nondual view of being recognised as a self from the outside, dissolves the illusion of our separateness from the outside reality.



No ego = acceptance of perspectives with no hesitation of the acceptance/understanding. Unconditional love to seek that which can not be obtained. Perceptibly hard to obtain but ultimate salvation when you reach it.
 *Like running up a very steep hill and then getting to the top and feeling relieved to reach the top to go down hill for some much earned rest. Like you cursed gravity and then praised it. That feeling*

No ego = acceptance of perspectives with no hesitation of the acceptance/understanding. Unconditional love to seek that which can not be obtained. Perceptibly hard to obtain but ultimate salvation when you reach it.
 *Like running up a very steep hill and then getting to the top and feeling relieved to reach the top to go down hill for some much earned rest. Like you cursed gravity and then praised it. That feeling*


If you are accepting of perspectives, then how come you can't talk about women? The unconditional love part definitely sounds like the ideal, much like the metaphysics of Gnosticism and Vitalism.

No ego = acceptance of perspectives with no hesitation of the acceptance/understanding. Unconditional love to seek that which can not be obtained. Perceptibly hard to obtain but ultimate salvation when you reach it.
 *Like running up a very steep hill and then getting to the top and feeling relieved to reach the top to go down hill for some much earned rest. Like you cursed gravity and then praised it. That feeling*


If you are accepting of perspectives, then how come you can't talk about women? The unconditional love part definitely sounds like the ideal, much like the metaphysics of Gnosticism and Vitalism.


Everything was created by self. It didnt have a gender but had to create in balance. A man and women are just that...a balance to create life.

Good to see you back.

What I will say as an interjection, is that biological sex defining gender in terms of reproductive capability is a social construct that has been performed from Christianity onwards, see Monique Wittig's work 'The Straight Mind'.

Good to see you back.

What I will say as an interjection, is that biological sex defining gender in terms of reproductive capability is a social construct that has been performed from Christianity onwards, see Monique Wittig's work 'The Straight Mind'.


I will. I posted a story to explain everything. Please read. its called "Being"

I read it already, I am sure I will add more to my responses soon.

A word of advice - don't bring up anything you don't want to talk about and if you don't get along with any member (including admins) you can use the block function.

I read it already, I am sure I will add more to my responses soon.

A word of advice - don't bring up anything you don't want to talk about and if you don't get along with any member (including admins) you can use the block function.


I understand...but I don't really care. There are many forums and many ways to express myself. If I am not wanted here, I will gladly go. But for some reason, I came back.

Ontical doesn't want you to go, nobody here wants you to. Everyone is entitled to express their own points of view, but those views are subject to scrutiny too.

Many forums outright ban topics pertaining to gender, but we don't want it to be like that here. We welcome all weird and wonderful ideas, from Analytic to Continental and Religious to Atheist with everything in between.

I understand...but I don't really care. There are many forums and many ways to express myself. If I am not wanted here, I will gladly go. But for some reason, I came back.


You are entitled to your opinions and you are welcome to share them here if you want to talk about them.

All I ask is that everything be civil and I will endeavor to do the same.

I don't class myself as a 'Social Justice Warrior' to be honest, but neither am I anti-feminist, reactionary or conservative. I have left leaning libertarian views that are anti-capitalist and have read extensively on feminism and post-structuralism/structuralism etc. I don't get along with the Social Justice community as I hold views that they disagree with and they usually refuse to talk about them, they can be just as bad as those they point the finger at.

I don't like identity politics and criticise it often. I don't fall into traps that lead to tribalism and I certainly don't associate people with others they have never interacted with simply because they say similar things, I try my best to talk about things and I try to distance myself from sensitive topics so that I can talk about in an intellectual way, some may see this as 'cold hard logic', but all I am interested in is actually knowing what something means and how it relates to other ideas.

I hope you stay and that you continue to contribute to the forum. I was thinking of nominating you for member of the month when the nominations open tomorrow actually. :)