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Proposition (a)

Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 6:16 pm
by waechter418
All our deeds, emotions, thoughts, creeds – and whatever else we are trying to relate ourselves with – are expression of Consciousness which thus exercises its possibilities in order to realise itself.

Re: Proposition (a)

Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 6:30 pm
by atreestump
What are the consequences of such a proposition? What is consciousness?

Re: Proposition (a)

Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 9:16 pm
by waechter418
proposition: anything stated or affirmed for discussion (Thesaurus)

lets start  :) !
[hr]

Taking every manifestation as an aspect/expression of consciousness, i look very much forward to your participation.

(doubtless there are various levels/planes/spheres/dimensions of consciousness, but for simplicity sake i deal with the most immediate one)

Re: Proposition (a)

Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 7:12 am
by Socrates
It would mean consciousness is another word for God in a panentheist sense. Just like Being can be. It borders on idealism.

Re: Proposition (a)

Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 9:22 am
by atreestump
I might add that if we explain expressions, this does not describe what something is.

One similar example is the new age 'masculine' and 'feminine' "energies" - we get lots of descriptions of what they do, like say, art, dance, fights, or bravery etc, but when asked 'what is it? what is masculine energy?', we just get more of the same.

The problem is, 'energy' and 'consciousness' can become bucket terms, everything can go in them, we can catch all reality in the bucket, but after a while, an abstract can be as empty as it is full, the term becomes meaningless.

Consciousness, as in self-awareness, seems to be something that appears with language, so we could say that language is also being expressed, as language can be shown to have a materiality of its own - if I die and you find my shopping list, it still has use value, my intent does not have to be involved.

It may be a mistake of philosophy to think it could ever get the right answer here, we can propose that interpretation is never fixed (which is not to say we advocate ultra-relativism), it just means metaphysics has always been a mythology of sorts.

Re: Proposition (a)

Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 3:07 pm
by waechter418
If we use consciousness as a bucket-term, we can dump everything (All) into it; thus we are less tempted to determine what consciousness is, but try to do something useful with it (the contents)

Re: Proposition (a)

Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 3:20 pm
by atreestump
Then the proposition will be tautological- or true by affirmation or negation. The problem is, if it's described everything, then it's nothing.

It will, or will not rain tomorrow.

I think you are looking for a kind of heuristic approach where we throw out conclusions of true and false and just see where it goes.

It might be better to ask what consciousness is, it certainly isn't a substance, it isn't an essence, as it requires many other things for it to emerge, we could say it's an illusion of sorts, that qualia is only our experience of kinds and qualities but is not consciousness itself, which cannot exist in isolation- it originates dependent on other factors.

Re: Proposition (a)

Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 3:57 pm
by Socrates
Sounds more like you are talking about Will.

Re: Proposition (a)

Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 4:47 pm
by waechter418
The above proposition can be interpret as:
us being exercises of consciousness - or exercising consciousness

Under this perspective - and due to my affinity to Will (Thelema) - i try to conjunct the two aspects.
 
[hr]
"I think you are looking for a kind of heuristic approach where we throw out conclusions of true and false and just see where it goes."


I rather work at what we can do !

Re: Proposition (a)

Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 5:33 pm
by atreestump

All our deeds, emotions, thoughts, creeds – and whatever else we are trying to relate ourselves with


This is all social and hence to do with power relations, will and desire, discourse.

When you say consciousness, are you talking about basic self-awareness, or of something more fundamental, something that is not only of our experience, but part of Being?