IndieAgora

From Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asemic_writing

[quote][b]Asemic writing[/b] is a wordless open [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantics]semantic[/url] form of [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Writing]writing[/url].[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asemic_writing#cite_note-auto-2][2][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asemic_writing#cite_note-3][3][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asemic_writing#cite_note-4][4][/url] The word [i]asemic[/i] [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/English]/eɪˈsiːmɪk/[/url] means "having no specific semantic content", or "without the smallest unit of meaning".[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asemic_writing#cite_note-5][a][/url]
Asemic writing fuses text and image together, while minimising the use of gestures, lines and symbols. Its non-specificity leaves readers to interpret its meaning – such works can have multiple meanings that evolve over time.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asemic_writing#cite_note-6][5][/url] The open nature of asemic works allows for meaning to occur across [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic]linguistic[/url] understanding; an asemic text may be "read" in a similar fashion regardless of the reader's natural language.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asemic_writing#cite_note-7][6][/url][/quote]

and

[quote]Asemic writing, at times, exists as a conception or shadow of conventional writing practices. Reflecting writing, but not completely existing as a traditional writing system, asemic writing seeks to make the reader hover in a state between reading and looking.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asemic_writing#cite_note-9][8][/url] Asemic writing has no verbal sense, though it may have clear textual sense.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asemic_writing#cite_note-auto1-10][9][/url]
Through its formatting and structure, asemic writing may suggest a type of document and, thereby, suggest a meaning. The form of art is still writing, often [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calligraphic]calligraphic[/url] in form, and either depends on a reader's sense and knowledge of writing systems for it to make sense,[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asemic_writing#cite_note-auto1-10][9][/url] or can be understood through aesthetic intuition.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asemic_writing#cite_note-auto-2][2][/url]
True asemic writing occurs when the creator of the asemic piece cannot read their own asemic writing. Relative asemic writing is a natural writing system that can be read by some people but not by everyone (e.g. [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciphers]ciphers[/url], [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildstyle]wildstyle[/url], etc.). Most asemic writing lies between these two extremes.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asemic_writing#cite_note-11][10][/url] Influences on asemic writing are illegible, [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructed_language]invented[/url], or primal [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuscript]scripts[/url] ([url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_painting]cave paintings[/url], [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doodle]doodles[/url], children's drawings, etc.). But instead of being thought of as mimicry of preliterate expression, asemic writing may be considered to be a global [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postliterate_society]postliterate[/url] style of writing that uses all forms of creativity for inspiration. Other influences on asemic writing are [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_language_in_science_fiction]alien languages in science fiction[/url], [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artistic_languages]artistic languages[/url], [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigil_(magic)]sigils[/url], [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undeciphered_scripts]undeciphered scripts[/url], and [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graffiti]graffiti[/url].[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asemic_writing#cite_note-12][11][/url] Uses for asemic writing include mental and [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creativity]creative[/url] [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idea]idea[/url] stimulation, [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-verbal_communication]non-verbal communication[/url], [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditation]meditation[/url], [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoaxes]hoaxes[/url], curing [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Writer%27s_block]writer's block[/url], [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy]privacy[/url], and general authorial self-expression.[/quote]

It was years before I knew the name for what I had been doing.

I see a connection with Surrealist Automatic Writing & Drawing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrealist_automatism
[quote][b]Surrealist automatism[/b] is a method of art-making in which the artist suppresses conscious control over the making process, allowing the unconscious mind to have great sway. This drawing technique was popularized in the early 1920s, by [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andr%C3%A9_Masson]André Masson[/url] and [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Arp]Hans Arp.[/url][/quote]

I am confused by the wikipedia article stating about asemic writing that the artist/writer is [i]"minimising the use of gestures, lines and symbols"[/i]. That is not my understanding at all. Minimizing references to words. Gestures, lines, inescapable, vital, without this, asemic writing would be invisible! Symbols? I would agree that recognisable symbols would be avoided, generally, because they have commonality with words, their form is not their meaning, meaning doesn't arise out of their form. Think of a no entry sign, or an up arrow. I'm not sure I would deliberately say they can't be used within asemic writing, but generally, perhaps, not in its spirit. However, equally, it depends, some asemic writing may very well have these recognizable symbols and signs as an aspect of its spirit.

I was just listening to this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hovsoNNiSbY
And what crops up? Fractals! ...and training AI to (perform?) asemic writing after training it with asemic texts.

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I think the part about lines might have had a different thought in their mind, because you are right about invisibility without any way to mark things or draw them, so if it isn't an error, they may have meant lines in sole other way, it could even be an issue of a translation, but I think I might understand what they could have alternatively meant in the context of being sandwiched between those other two words around it. They may have meant something more akin to any indicators or directions that tell the reader where to look and in what order or direction to read or pretend to read or look at the script, like how our lines are read from left to right, but others are read the opposite way, or up and down, and also each letter is scanned quickly in a certain direction to, so maybe they could have meant that there should be a minimization of indicatirs that would increase or pressure the sense of an order or pattern that more strongly would suggest meaning or something, rather than no possible way to approach putting anything down in the first place, or it is just a slip up and an extra, unecessary word, an asemic insertion, but I think they may have meant something and that what they meant was hopefully not to not even approach any surface deliberately to begin to mark it, but maybe just to limit formality or structure and directives as much as possible since it may then approach a deliberate sense and meaning or content in the script and patterns and reading directions more easily intuited and "meant" by the artist or creator, since it was supposed to be as lacking in semantic content and any sort of meaning or directions, which are like a meaning or command too, derived from the visual content. I think the whole thing should not become really overly pedantic though, and whatever they meant by line, since it is unclear, can and should probably be overlooked so as not to inhibit the scribbling and scattering that awaits! If you are able to produce some and show others or your own from the past, I'd love to see your asemic writing, this was such an interesting subject and read for me.

I liked the video a lot also, and how he was getting a sense of language from the things around, sort of like an epiphany or paranoid psychotic hallucinations, where signals and input get sort of mixed in the mind so that a bug crawling around or leaves on a bush or the way some lamps and other things are placed around, or even a whole room, or visuals in an image, seem like they are saying something or are a communication of some kind. I really like such things, and it also comes close to things I try and try to induce while remaining sane, in control, in disbelief, while also believing. Even the way I look at some of those posts I make full of information of all kinds is meant to give a sense, at least to me, of some greater communication through combination. I'm typically averse to any suggestion that communication opportunities or insertions of meaning deliberately invested into symbols for ones own benefit should be denied. Like I really dislike when dome people commonly say "it's not that deep, don't read into it, it is just a whatever, sh*t happens" and everything that tries to, perhaps for comfort and safety, kill the mind and the imagination and deriving more from things. One of their issues, the people who say such things, is a concern with the author's intention as "canon" and the final and sole authority directing and creating the parameters of what anyone should be limited to think about what amounts to "stuff" they put together and curated, but to me that is also just one aspect, whether they say there is an intended abd specific limited meaning and references being made or denying it, once I receive something in my experience, that received version has been copied into my mind and memory, so I think I can make more of it if I'd like to, acknowledging the immediate source of the thing may have had different ideas about it, but now something of it is mine and with me, like a toy, and I make the figure any other character as well, with any content, history, or reminders attached to it. So I like to fill things up more, otherwise it can tend towards being a bit more boring for me, like someone saying "don't think" or "don't make more out of it", it seems bland, flavotless, and a waste of time to just stare and stuff blankly, because all stuff can be reduced to the same through indifference and making it all meaningless and without references and corredpondences and connections, like a wall and a lamp and a ceiling all have those differences we are giving them, thoroughly depleting any acknowledgement of any of that information which we are applying to it and there wouldn't even be a way to think it isn't flatly without spatial division or to communicate about it. I also dislike people who take meditation as mind killing, but some people may be helped by such processes if their minds are seemingly way out of control and they are basically unable to calm their disturbing and invasive internal chatter, which some report. I think that is a chemical balance issue probably.

I like reading hairs on the ground or shower wall, I like reading leaves, omens, snakes.

I just received a book called Marginalized Populations In The Ancient Greek World and that seems related to me too since people say "It is all Greek to me" and Greeks are credited with the pejorative "barbarous" applied to oeople whose languages they could not understand and which might have sounded like barbarbar to them. They then had "barbarous speech" and "barbarous names" in the Greco-Egyptian Magical texts, and scribbles and demonic signatures later on:

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/MBD7KH/pact-d ... MBD7KH.jpg

It was typically people from the "outside" of the centers of "official" language production and power that were thought to be scribbling things or making weird marks that seemed "secret" or "occult" due to ignorance of the meaning and in some cases deliberate secrecy, posdibly in other cases just messing with people, but that sort of trolling is late and comes from a specific combination of things, as the person doing such would have to feel confident enough in their surroundings to waste time messing with people they want reactions and attention from, risking negative attention too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogham

Excellent topic. Really touches upon some of the themes I was talking about over the past few weeks in regards to antilanguages which are without human conventions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensor_(manga)

Here/Hair/Hare (Down The Rabbit/Hare Hold)

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I'm getting a dancing couple, teddy bears, couple of eagles then games of noughts and crosses. Just my first impressions.

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I'm definitely seeing some sort of order beginning to form, even though effectively it's formless and escapes meaning, but there is some sorting going on. What kind of things are going through your mind while doing this?

I have noticed that X and O are very difficult to escape from even while scribbling, there must be something fundamental to those two letters.

Part of me wants to reply to this thread only using photographs of my attempts at asemic writing.
Part of me fears AI learning too much about what I don't know about myself.
The impulses may themselves be unknown to the world outside of my mind, some impulses may take shape in conscious awareness. Do subconscious impulses create the illusion of conscious decisions? Conscious decisions are already based on unconscious processes. Is the decision already decided by this point? Or does the subconscious present (only) the quandary(s) to conscious awareness for which only conscious awareness is better suited. The conscious awareness says to the subconscious, I'm okay thanks, you may deal with my body's biological systems, my nervous system, immune system. I'll learn some stuff about it, but ultimately you, my dear subconscious, have the best body of knowledge for dealing with this body. I'll try to make some sort of sense of this world beyond my body, this body, I can't promise much, it's fucking confusing as shit, and there's people twisting everything around to confuse us and take advantage.
So dear subconscious have you heard of asemic writing? I believe we've practised together in the past.
The surrealists weren't aware of the science I am aware of. The science saying there's no such thing as free will, that the subconscious makes decisions in advance of us becoming aware of the choice upon which we must decide and make an informed choice. By this stage science says, the decision is made, yet, we consciously weigh things up and arrive at the decision.
----
In my drawings of asemic writing, The O's are a form I felt attracted to, choose to resist or embrace, my interpretation of the science frees me from saying my conscious decision to choose one or the other is not my subconscious. Do not fear the conscious as erroneous data input when seeking to draw on the subconscious. Is that a question or instruction? The strange O, attractor, the attraction of the strange O.
The page starting with X. WRONG. X = WRONG. THIS WAS WRONG. The O, a natural tendency, the X, forced, deliberate, deliberately lift mark making tool from medium receptacle surface. The O, infinite, easy, loop, X WRONG, ERROR, FAIL.
----
Fractions. Fractals. Attractors. Feedback. The X is also an act of obliteration, the grid. The Z is related. The sawtooth is another pole of the attractor. Some poles of the attractor are the visual marks themselves, others poles are recurring subjects of thought, anxieties, discomforts, desires, wishes, self-censorship.
There's another form of asemic writing I make with more controlled, slower, more deliberate lines, balancing inside/outside positive/negative shapes, which initially begun with influence from various cultures around the world, as well as the idea yet again of alien languages. I haven't practised this other form so much recently, ... it removes the self-censorship potential of the scribble, so if fear is a feature, it removes the credibility, or, it damages the precision, erodes the potential of wordless meaning transfer. So they say, it's an idea I picked up. Fear pollution. Legitimacy. Authenticity. Fear damages authenticity. Fear must be stopped. Optimized out for production purposes. Heal thyself foul being.

Do you want to try asemic pronounciation and asemic music production and asemic image production, maybe even asemic photography, asemic sculpting even? Basically all it would be based on the prior definitions would be producing results that resemble those things through processes that also resemble the processes of making those things, using the tools typically involved, but minimizing or eliminating the semantic content, references, or meanings.

I also wonder what would happen if you change the tools, like if you drew with different devices, typed, painted with a brush, your finger, your tongue unless that is too gross or messy, your nose, your elbow, like it would probably end up shifting what you come up with based on elements like comfort, do it is almost like the pen you are using may be playing a bigger role than we are able to appreciate.