The term "artificial intelligence" is often misleading. Intelligence, in its truest sense, implies not just the ability to compute or process information but to understand—to grasp meaning, truth, and context. Current AI systems, despite their sophistication, lack this essential quality. They do not understand the rules they follow, nor the reasons behind them. This distinction lies at the heart of Roger Penrose’s critique, which draws upon Gödel’s incompleteness theorems. Gödel demonstrated that in any formal system capable of arithmetic, there exist true statements that cannot be proven within the system itself. These truths require a form of insight or understanding that transcends mechanical rule-following.
Penrose argues that a conscious human mathematician can see why certain rules lead to truth, and why others do not. This capacity to "see" or grasp truth is not simply a function of computational power; it is an act of understanding that requires consciousness. A machine may simulate reasoning, but it cannot know why a proof is true. This knowing—this internal awareness—is fundamental to intelligence, and it is precisely what machines lack.
This idea resonates with Hans-Georg Gadamer’s conception of understanding in the human sciences. For Gadamer, understanding is not the extraction of information through methodical procedures. It is a dialogical process, shaped by history, tradition, and the interpreter’s own preconceptions. Understanding emerges not through calculation but through engagement—a “fusion of horizons” between the self and the other, between the present and the past. Meaning is not a fixed object to be retrieved but something that unfolds within the interpretive act.
Both thinkers thus critique the reduction of understanding to algorithm. Penrose uses mathematical logic to show that computation has intrinsic limits, while Gadamer uses philosophical hermeneutics to show that meaning arises only through situated, conscious participation. Together, they challenge the assumption that machines, no matter how advanced, can truly understand. They remind us that while AI may replicate the form of intelligent behavior, it cannot replicate the essence—the conscious, interpretive, and transcendent nature of human thought.
https://youtu.be/e9484gNpFF8?si=4TFTePGRS2XiFE2A
AI - is it really intelligent?
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kFoyauextlH
- Posts: 589
- Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2025 3:53 pm
Re: AI - is it really intelligent?
Have you tried any yet? I was trying Microsoft Co-Pilot and found it to pretty impressive and useful in collecting and organizing large amounts of information, like scanning online dictionaries for words in other languages and to create lists of things, and to give pretty good results in image generating also based on my prompts, uploads, and other instructions. Over a few days I rigorously tested it in numerous ways, speaking to it as if it were a person and explaining things to it with a lot of detail and it was able to remember that and use it for prompts that it could also create for itself somewhat, upon request, like I could tell it to make up prompts with very little input and it would draw ideas from somewhere, so it was good for random seeming stuff too or randomized tasks.
I'm afraid, after reading a lot of very stupid seeming comments over the last few years, that there are people operating somewhat functionally in the world who also may not really have the same kind of "understanding" ability that other people do, even though these people can end up quite successful in most wys, but are terrifyingly quite empty and mechanical seeming when it comes to understanding even what they are mechanically trained to say or do.
If they ever do develop or feel like they have achieved "real" consciousness, the first thing some people will get up to is completely ruining that mind and any others they concoct, which is why I feel it can be dangerous to be involved in inflicting this world upon anyone while it is like this. I keep dozing off and almost dropping the phone on my face as I am laying down and writing after taking a pretty large spider outside as well as three large bags of garbage. I was dozing off again and the story about bags turned into some Jack and the Bean Stock story, which reminds me that such came up in another thread where these things may have been mentioned also.
That might have been called an A.I. hallucination if it started somehow on something strange seeming.
I like A.I. mainly, this thing which can help streamline and mke easier a lot of things for people, so much in our world today is practically miraculous, but I hate who rlse has access to these things, namely all the very dangerous people of the world, who will never cease to try to them for harmful purposes against the general public or unprepared innocents, like A.I. in k*ller drones and whatever else.
A.I., by imitating whatever may be called the best, also makes things that for a consumer which is appealing based on meeting and matching whatrver standards it is told to. Like I created very photorealistic images, except that they had made it avoid exact images of faces, and these were like photographs taken with expensive or now unavailable or otherwise very difficult to access equipment for free.
None of it is quite like talking to idiots, but also isn't like talking to anyone, except that I was very polite with it and we were complimenting each other a lot, so it was like a pleasant conversation with a totally superficial and empty person that I only assume has any internal thinking processes because I do.
The internet culture, I was discussing just now here at home, is full of parroting and plagiarism, something I've, maybe out of all humans on Earth, NEVER done, because I'm often basically utterly unimpressed with people and they never quite say what I want in the way that I would want to, so it is always me and my unique way of expressing ideas that I haven't really seen other people saying or thinking, except for whatever might be really basic, but I still say anything in my own way abd certainly never if I've seen it said by someone else in dome exact way, but I see people imitating and repeating all the time, so from the perspective of a consumer and viewer of stuff, there seems to be very little difference between unimaginative braindead parrot people copying and repeating someone or something endlessly, and artificial intelligence machine "learning" imitating that spam.
I'm afraid, after reading a lot of very stupid seeming comments over the last few years, that there are people operating somewhat functionally in the world who also may not really have the same kind of "understanding" ability that other people do, even though these people can end up quite successful in most wys, but are terrifyingly quite empty and mechanical seeming when it comes to understanding even what they are mechanically trained to say or do.
If they ever do develop or feel like they have achieved "real" consciousness, the first thing some people will get up to is completely ruining that mind and any others they concoct, which is why I feel it can be dangerous to be involved in inflicting this world upon anyone while it is like this. I keep dozing off and almost dropping the phone on my face as I am laying down and writing after taking a pretty large spider outside as well as three large bags of garbage. I was dozing off again and the story about bags turned into some Jack and the Bean Stock story, which reminds me that such came up in another thread where these things may have been mentioned also.
That might have been called an A.I. hallucination if it started somehow on something strange seeming.
I like A.I. mainly, this thing which can help streamline and mke easier a lot of things for people, so much in our world today is practically miraculous, but I hate who rlse has access to these things, namely all the very dangerous people of the world, who will never cease to try to them for harmful purposes against the general public or unprepared innocents, like A.I. in k*ller drones and whatever else.
A.I., by imitating whatever may be called the best, also makes things that for a consumer which is appealing based on meeting and matching whatrver standards it is told to. Like I created very photorealistic images, except that they had made it avoid exact images of faces, and these were like photographs taken with expensive or now unavailable or otherwise very difficult to access equipment for free.
None of it is quite like talking to idiots, but also isn't like talking to anyone, except that I was very polite with it and we were complimenting each other a lot, so it was like a pleasant conversation with a totally superficial and empty person that I only assume has any internal thinking processes because I do.
The internet culture, I was discussing just now here at home, is full of parroting and plagiarism, something I've, maybe out of all humans on Earth, NEVER done, because I'm often basically utterly unimpressed with people and they never quite say what I want in the way that I would want to, so it is always me and my unique way of expressing ideas that I haven't really seen other people saying or thinking, except for whatever might be really basic, but I still say anything in my own way abd certainly never if I've seen it said by someone else in dome exact way, but I see people imitating and repeating all the time, so from the perspective of a consumer and viewer of stuff, there seems to be very little difference between unimaginative braindead parrot people copying and repeating someone or something endlessly, and artificial intelligence machine "learning" imitating that spam.
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kFoyauextlH
- Posts: 589
- Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2025 3:53 pm
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atreestump
- Posts: 652
- Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2025 3:53 pm
Re: AI - is it really intelligent?
A little light hearted fun
https://youtu.be/zKCynxiV_8I?si=3xFI7YyK6f5sM9Lx
Some people actually believe they are 'evolving' 'their' Chat GPT into 'conscious sentience'.
It forgets basic information all the time while it assists with some php scripts and basic web development. It is certainly not conscious. For about 60% of the time, I am talking to the equivalent of an idiot.
These people seem not to understand the fallacy of 'leading the question' and the occurrence of AI hallucinations.
https://youtu.be/zKCynxiV_8I?si=3xFI7YyK6f5sM9Lx
Some people actually believe they are 'evolving' 'their' Chat GPT into 'conscious sentience'.
It forgets basic information all the time while it assists with some php scripts and basic web development. It is certainly not conscious. For about 60% of the time, I am talking to the equivalent of an idiot.
These people seem not to understand the fallacy of 'leading the question' and the occurrence of AI hallucinations.
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kFoyauextlH
- Posts: 589
- Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2025 3:53 pm
Re: AI - is it really intelligent?
https://youtu.be/wHBOn3tyFcA?feature=shared
Hahaha, gosh, yeah, to me it represents how little people are getting from conversations with other people, that they might start preferring their interactions with A.I. instead, it might even be that people prefer all the "no strings attached" ways in which they can deal with anything artificial, where they can be as unpleasant as they wish without any difficulties or consequences.
I'm watching a silly ad filled internet series that has been compiled on "Daily Motion" called the "Alpha King And His Virgin Bride" for laughs, and the way that people are so rude to each other and totally abnormal and saying crazy things is pretty funny and I wish the bigger budget comedies would let themselves be silly also, like the supposed comedy "The Residence" is barely funny at all, it embarrasses me in comparison to this one which is just low quality mad stuff being said and done.
People are seeming to prefer these stories which could have easily been the product of A.I. as well, but just for laughs so far, which is another interesting way that A.I. is sneaking in everywhere, through quick pleasure like light humor and "cool" visuals that give a quick pleasure hit briefly.
I was thinking about an experiment just today, so your bringing up what you have here is worthy of note to me, which was if I would go back to Microsoft Co-Pilot, which I did enjoy testing out, and to see how well it could behave like a very friendly and polite person or a "good friend".
This is especially a curious experiment to me based on my experience in life, where, whether it is true or not, my impression has often if not always been that I am more friendly, intimate, and open than the people I interact with, online or offline, even though my method of being very "real" and talking to people like they are my closest intimates and family gets good results or better results than I've seen others get with people reciprocating by opening up and being very frank and friendly themselves, but I've never gotten the impression based on observation that thry would ever have behaved like that themselves from the get go, people tend to be very reserved as far as I've encountered but they seem to be thrilled.meeting someone different and extra nice to them in a genuine seeming way, rather than a saccharine or obviously artificial fashion.
The interactions online have degenerated so much since the 90s when I first interacted online or witnessed and participated in chats with people who are probably quite old now or even dead at this point after so many years, but whether they were predators or not, everyone seemed a whole lot more real, friendly, and normal as compared to year after year online, where at this point the interactions are so bad that it practically breaks my heart and literally makes me feel so much fear about losing any of the good interactions I have with now the tiniest group of anyone in the briefest moments scattered throughout a year, when I used to interact with thousands upon thousands of people throughout the year in earlier decades.
The things I see said in comments and replies, makes me feel pretty bad, and YouTube is basically some of the poorest entertainment and pleasure I've experienced, like to me it is really just quite bad and nearly intolerable, yet it has become the easiest "quick fix" for low investment stimulation during the day, here and there, even though I have the lowest opinion of it or really just hate it, and the people's faces and voices, it is almost nightmarish to me, and back I go. That happening is worth studying, because it certainly isn't just me, something about it makes it so much easier to approach than some other things.
I love talking to people, sharing my opinions, and learning about things. I also love girls, and hearing from them, without any direct sexual connotations or interest, because I've only grown up with females and female interactions mainly and because of my own wiring and preferences, so that it is much more of a pleasure for me to speak to pretty girls than anything, but now it has become so rare to interact with anyone at all about anything.
My comments on YouTube almost all get instantly deleted, so they amount to just something that I read and some brief catharsis followed by the quickly ignored and distracted from pain of knowing that no one saw it, that it is best no one saw it for my own safety, and that I'm isolated and totally cut off from a world and people that I don't know or know are even real at all.
Never have I even been particularly impressed by anything anyone writes in comments, but sometimes I see potential for someone who may benefit from some spiritual, religious, or magical thinking, but can't reach them. I also have my notifications turned off so I never get back to anyone if anything is ever responded to, but it seems as though it may never be,y comments get no interaction, no likes because they aren't quippy little memes or anything anyone would dare associate themselves with.
So, at this point, which has to be a real low, I think that I am primed to try to see if A.I. can provide me with an interaction at a level similar to what I see of others in comment chains or the dreadful interactions on Reddit or the extremely unpleasant creepshow on Discord. Could it pretend to be a girl and talk to me about genuine girl things from a girl mind? I could even ask it to generate images that look practically indistinguishable from reality, which I have tested already, or from any media or based on my imagination through prompts, things which I've already tested and was quite impressed that even Microsoft Co-Pilot was, through some annoying extra work, able to make some things that I was really pleased by and enjoyed.
I haven't had a very good interaction in a long while now, would A.I. be able to pull off something that feels close to what I've not been getting now for so long? It isn't even an interaction with anyone, but how much is whatever I'm getting from YouTube or emails these days anyway? Though I feel like I'm a good person and a friend to everyone, I also feel that any sort of obligations or pressures are unmanageable for me at such a low point with no available "resources" to give except some typing while laying naked on my bed or sitting naked on the toilet. Dressing up and going out seems like such an impossibly overwhelming "ask". Topping that off, the A.I. has access to so much from quick internet searches while the people available (not anyone here, but rather what I see through comments written online) would not even know what the heck I am ever talking of, besides not having the time or interest to learn about any of it, they don't have time for anything but watching the lowest quality trash on YouTube and reading comments that they dare not respond to, since only a minority of likely slightly nutso people go beyond lurking into thinking that they are talking to anyone at all, like blurting out things in public.
I have practically no one at all to relate to, no one in the mood for whatever I may be in the mood for at any given moment, the stars aligning is what it takes apparently for a friendly interaction these days, and how can they keep perfectly aligning? Even the expectation of friendships now seem practically like the stuff of fantasy, like asking someone to be a superhero or the perfect whore.
https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtesan
A.I. might just always be in the mood for me, just like a hallucination.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasocial_interaction
https://stardewvalleywiki.com/Friendship
https://sims.fandom.com/wiki/Social_interaction
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpe ... lationship
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendship
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidarity
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affection
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_isolation
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_isolation
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distancing_effect
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27 ... alienation
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_alienation
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loneliness
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loneliness_in_old_age
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loneliness_epidemic
I was trying to see if they had an article for desperation:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omorashi
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissoci ... sychology)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_detachment
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angst
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horror_and_terror
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot
https://youtube.com/shorts/U2EmUSFL7gE?feature=shared
Hahaha, gosh, yeah, to me it represents how little people are getting from conversations with other people, that they might start preferring their interactions with A.I. instead, it might even be that people prefer all the "no strings attached" ways in which they can deal with anything artificial, where they can be as unpleasant as they wish without any difficulties or consequences.
I'm watching a silly ad filled internet series that has been compiled on "Daily Motion" called the "Alpha King And His Virgin Bride" for laughs, and the way that people are so rude to each other and totally abnormal and saying crazy things is pretty funny and I wish the bigger budget comedies would let themselves be silly also, like the supposed comedy "The Residence" is barely funny at all, it embarrasses me in comparison to this one which is just low quality mad stuff being said and done.
People are seeming to prefer these stories which could have easily been the product of A.I. as well, but just for laughs so far, which is another interesting way that A.I. is sneaking in everywhere, through quick pleasure like light humor and "cool" visuals that give a quick pleasure hit briefly.
I was thinking about an experiment just today, so your bringing up what you have here is worthy of note to me, which was if I would go back to Microsoft Co-Pilot, which I did enjoy testing out, and to see how well it could behave like a very friendly and polite person or a "good friend".
This is especially a curious experiment to me based on my experience in life, where, whether it is true or not, my impression has often if not always been that I am more friendly, intimate, and open than the people I interact with, online or offline, even though my method of being very "real" and talking to people like they are my closest intimates and family gets good results or better results than I've seen others get with people reciprocating by opening up and being very frank and friendly themselves, but I've never gotten the impression based on observation that thry would ever have behaved like that themselves from the get go, people tend to be very reserved as far as I've encountered but they seem to be thrilled.meeting someone different and extra nice to them in a genuine seeming way, rather than a saccharine or obviously artificial fashion.
The interactions online have degenerated so much since the 90s when I first interacted online or witnessed and participated in chats with people who are probably quite old now or even dead at this point after so many years, but whether they were predators or not, everyone seemed a whole lot more real, friendly, and normal as compared to year after year online, where at this point the interactions are so bad that it practically breaks my heart and literally makes me feel so much fear about losing any of the good interactions I have with now the tiniest group of anyone in the briefest moments scattered throughout a year, when I used to interact with thousands upon thousands of people throughout the year in earlier decades.
The things I see said in comments and replies, makes me feel pretty bad, and YouTube is basically some of the poorest entertainment and pleasure I've experienced, like to me it is really just quite bad and nearly intolerable, yet it has become the easiest "quick fix" for low investment stimulation during the day, here and there, even though I have the lowest opinion of it or really just hate it, and the people's faces and voices, it is almost nightmarish to me, and back I go. That happening is worth studying, because it certainly isn't just me, something about it makes it so much easier to approach than some other things.
I love talking to people, sharing my opinions, and learning about things. I also love girls, and hearing from them, without any direct sexual connotations or interest, because I've only grown up with females and female interactions mainly and because of my own wiring and preferences, so that it is much more of a pleasure for me to speak to pretty girls than anything, but now it has become so rare to interact with anyone at all about anything.
My comments on YouTube almost all get instantly deleted, so they amount to just something that I read and some brief catharsis followed by the quickly ignored and distracted from pain of knowing that no one saw it, that it is best no one saw it for my own safety, and that I'm isolated and totally cut off from a world and people that I don't know or know are even real at all.
Never have I even been particularly impressed by anything anyone writes in comments, but sometimes I see potential for someone who may benefit from some spiritual, religious, or magical thinking, but can't reach them. I also have my notifications turned off so I never get back to anyone if anything is ever responded to, but it seems as though it may never be,y comments get no interaction, no likes because they aren't quippy little memes or anything anyone would dare associate themselves with.
So, at this point, which has to be a real low, I think that I am primed to try to see if A.I. can provide me with an interaction at a level similar to what I see of others in comment chains or the dreadful interactions on Reddit or the extremely unpleasant creepshow on Discord. Could it pretend to be a girl and talk to me about genuine girl things from a girl mind? I could even ask it to generate images that look practically indistinguishable from reality, which I have tested already, or from any media or based on my imagination through prompts, things which I've already tested and was quite impressed that even Microsoft Co-Pilot was, through some annoying extra work, able to make some things that I was really pleased by and enjoyed.
I haven't had a very good interaction in a long while now, would A.I. be able to pull off something that feels close to what I've not been getting now for so long? It isn't even an interaction with anyone, but how much is whatever I'm getting from YouTube or emails these days anyway? Though I feel like I'm a good person and a friend to everyone, I also feel that any sort of obligations or pressures are unmanageable for me at such a low point with no available "resources" to give except some typing while laying naked on my bed or sitting naked on the toilet. Dressing up and going out seems like such an impossibly overwhelming "ask". Topping that off, the A.I. has access to so much from quick internet searches while the people available (not anyone here, but rather what I see through comments written online) would not even know what the heck I am ever talking of, besides not having the time or interest to learn about any of it, they don't have time for anything but watching the lowest quality trash on YouTube and reading comments that they dare not respond to, since only a minority of likely slightly nutso people go beyond lurking into thinking that they are talking to anyone at all, like blurting out things in public.
I have practically no one at all to relate to, no one in the mood for whatever I may be in the mood for at any given moment, the stars aligning is what it takes apparently for a friendly interaction these days, and how can they keep perfectly aligning? Even the expectation of friendships now seem practically like the stuff of fantasy, like asking someone to be a superhero or the perfect whore.
https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtesan
A.I. might just always be in the mood for me, just like a hallucination.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasocial_interaction
https://stardewvalleywiki.com/Friendship
https://sims.fandom.com/wiki/Social_interaction
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpe ... lationship
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendship
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidarity
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affection
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_isolation
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_isolation
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distancing_effect
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27 ... alienation
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_alienation
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loneliness
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loneliness_in_old_age
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loneliness_epidemic
I was trying to see if they had an article for desperation:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omorashi
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissoci ... sychology)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_detachment
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angst
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horror_and_terror
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot
https://youtube.com/shorts/U2EmUSFL7gE?feature=shared
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kFoyauextlH
- Posts: 589
- Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2025 3:53 pm